Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Doctor X · 07-31-2003, 05:04 PM

Secular:

I think he does not recognize the Documentary Hypothesis--he seems to fall back on an old rationalization of the existence of at least two creation myths. It is not as much "fun" as the gnostic one where they conclude that one of the gods is "blind" and evil.

Quote:

As a University professor once said 'the only difference between the OT and the NT is that in the NT the Word became flesh.'

malookiemaloo:

With all due respect, methinks this university professor needs to spend some time reading the texts.

--J.D.

sodium · 07-31-2003, 05:35 PM

Maybe God created the spirit with free will, and it simply chose to be evil.

07-31-2003, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Secular Pinoy
So Elohim is a different entity (or entities) from Yahweh? Then Christianity is not really monotheistic, as there are two different deities that were involved in the creation?

The first cause creates (as in God said) and the second cause provides substance to whatever God said (Lord God formed) and the third cause is able to influence what God will say (as in 'like god' demands reward and punishment from God).

I would say that this is monotheistic but would argue that Christianity is not a religion but the final end of Catholicism. The suffix -ity indicates that it is more like a state of mind and not an -ism that is aimed to bring this about.

07-31-2003, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Doctor X
Secular:

I think he does not recognize the Documentary Hypothesis--he seems to fall back on an old rationalization of the existence of at least two creation myths. It is not as much "fun" as the gnostic one where they conclude that one of the gods is "blind" and evil.

--J.D.

One creation myth and three causes in this myth. They are found in Gen.1, 2 and 3.

What is the Documentary Hypothesis about? I have never heard of it.

mark9950 · 07-31-2003, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Maybe God created the spirit with free will, and it simply chose to be evil.

Is the holy spirit going to hell?

Doctor X · 07-31-2003, 10:42 PM

Amos:

Actually no . . . more than one creation--my favorite is the one with YHWH defeating the chaos monster.

Anyways, I sincerely suggest you read the book recommended in the Recommended Reading section: Who Wrote the Bible?, by Richard Elliott Friedman.

This will summarize the Documentary Hypothesis far better than I can.

--J.D.

07-31-2003, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Doctor X
Amos:

Actually no . . . more than one creation--my favorite is the one with YHWH defeating the chaos monster.

Anyways, I sincerely suggest you read the book recommended in the Recommended Reading section: Who Wrote the Bible?, by Richard Elliott Friedman.

This will summarize the Documentary Hypothesis far better than I can.

--J.D.

Thanks Doctor X but I am not interested to find our who wrote the bible. I just read the words and fill in the blanks as I see fit.

Doctor X · 07-31-2003, 10:56 PM

Then, with all due respect, you cannot make the claim you made above.

I do not "like" the fact that we cannot travel faster than the speed of light--thereby ruining many an early fantasy of making it to Ripley's Pleasure Planet . . . maybe phaser someone I did not like. . . .

Well, if I want to argue against relativity, I need to know about it.

Current scholarship argues against your claim. I am afraid I cannot consider it seriously unless you address the rather persuasive arguments against you.

--J.D.

Secular Pinoy · 08-01-2003, 01:22 AM

Whoa, and I thought the Trinity is the hardest thing to grasp! Now we have three different causes to the supposed "single" creation myth, and that these three different causes does not, in any way, imply that Christianity is polytheistic. This is one really muddled metaphysical construct.

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07-31-2003, 05:35 PM	#22
sodium Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: British Columbia Posts: 1,027	Maybe God created the spirit with free will, and it simply chose to be evil.

07-31-2003, 10:42 PM	#26
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	Amos: Actually no . . . more than one creation--my favorite is the one with YHWH defeating the chaos monster. Anyways, I sincerely suggest you read the book recommended in the Recommended Reading section: Who Wrote the Bible?, by Richard Elliott Friedman. This will summarize the Documentary Hypothesis far better than I can. --J.D.

07-31-2003, 10:56 PM	#28
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	Then, with all due respect, you cannot make the claim you made above. I do not "like" the fact that we cannot travel faster than the speed of light--thereby ruining many an early fantasy of making it to Ripley's Pleasure Planet . . . maybe phaser someone I did not like. . . . Well, if I want to argue against relativity, I need to know about it. Current scholarship argues against your claim. I am afraid I cannot consider it seriously unless you address the rather persuasive arguments against you. --J.D.

08-01-2003, 01:22 AM	#29
Secular Pinoy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Quezon City, Philippines Posts: 1,994	Whoa, and I thought the Trinity is the hardest thing to grasp! Now we have three different causes to the supposed "single" creation myth, and that these three different causes does not, in any way, imply that Christianity is polytheistic. This is one really muddled metaphysical construct.

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