Amos

Thanks Opera Nut. Sacret indeed and not a sure thing in God-less America where they already have become a market commodity in fertility clinics.

Amos

Proselytizing in Christendom is redundant for obvious reason.

The only reason it works for protestants is that they seeking to convert Catholics who in their view are not Christians. This makes them wolves in sheep clothing trying to mislead the innocent sheep that do not know the difference until it is too late.

Amos

Good for you Laci. It's they only inspired religion in Christendom. All the others are man-made and soon become boring for life until death.

Opera Nut

At least those Latin Masses I sang in music camp choirs were what I call REAL CHURCH MUSIC.

Nothin' like a big honkin' fanfare like the Berlioz Requiem to scare the Pee-Wad outta them screaming sinners!!

That's Entertainment!!

godfry n. glad

Well.. Even though I agree with the general tenor of explanations here (except Amos, of course) that Roman Catholicism doesn't engage in much overt prosyletization in North America largely because they encourage procreation for new members, I have a minor exception to make...

It should be noted that prosyletization does occur. I myself was subjected to subtle attempts to recruit me to the RC flock. At the time, I was enjoying passing myself off as a neo-pagan as a pretense for throwing solstice and equinox parties. My then roomate, a practicing astrologer who was also the erudite product of a Dominican seminary, extended several pointed invitations to come participate in the "folk mass" at the nearby parish church, of which he was the main organizer. When I averred and suggested that he really didn't want a mouthy heathen and heretic in the midst of his devout singers, he actually went the distance to point out that Roman Catholicism had a LOT in common with paganism...indeed, that it had adopted much of it ritual from pagans. I couldn't fault him on his facts, but I stayed away. He even recruited our landlord, a former Jesuit priest, to extend an invitation as well. The invitations were repeated at fairly regular intervals. It was subtle, but it was there.

As for the Roman Catholics being "hated and reviled" in North America, try asking a Seventh-Day Adventist or Jehovah's Witness about the Roman Catholic Church sometime. That'll provide a few minutes of amusing entertainment and a bit of enlightenment. I don't know too many Southern Baptists, but I suspect that they might fall into the same category. Historically, RCs were placed in the same category as blacks and Asians by the KKK. Here in Oregon in the 1920s, when Oregon's state KKK membership qualified as the second largest in the nation (only Indiana had more members), the state chapter focused on an attempted obliteration of the Catholic school system in the state.

And, RationalBAC, how is it that one can be a "freethinking Episcopalian"? I mean....you do know what the two terms mean, don't you? Frankly, I would consider your self-descriptive phrase to be an oxymoron. One is either a "freethinker" or subscribes to one or more dogmas, they're mutually exclusive. To call oneself an Episcopalian, doesn't one need to subscribe to the dogma that the episcopate is the definitive source of theological decisions for the religious community...and not the individual?

godfry n. glad

Rational BAC

Nope---Godfrey.

Most Episcopalians I have known are the biggest skeptics there are. ------Episcopate or no Episcopate. What do you expect really?--the only reason we got a Church at all is because Henry VIII was such a horny old basstard.

Will admit I do like the ceremony of the Eucharist. For me, no other church compares with Episcopalians in this. By contrast, the Catholic version is just plain pitiful. And I was a Methodist for a while and their version (silly little plastic cups of grape juice, no going to the altar, and then, only every few months when they got around 'toit--as a side thought---was just plain laughable.

That Methodist preacher sure gave great sermons though, off the top of his head. Was why I became a Methodist for a few years. Unfortunately he ended up getting kicked out for having an adulterous affair with one of his parishioners. The next preacher was a very moral type, and also a very boring type--------So back I went to the Episcopal Church, where I could enjoy the much more elaborate and refined ceremony, enjoy a taste of excellent wine while I was being bored-------(actually, Episcopal sermons can be very intellectual and challenging sometimes. Usually boring as hell though)

Episcopalians tend to use their very liberal Church as a cover for free-thinking. Nobody really cares what Episcopalians think, as long as they show up occasionally for church services.

godfry n. glad

....and give liberally to support the extension of the church and its dogmas.

I had a friend who grew up in the Episcopal Church (High Church, that is) and he described it as "Pomp and Circumstance - _With_ Divorce." Apt, I think.

Still... Do you ascribe to any of the creeds? You know, the Nicene, Apostolic or Athanasian? If not, how is it you can call yourself an Episcopalian (which is nothing other than the American term for "Anglican"). (Horny or not, Henry VIII still expected adherence to certain dogma and persecuted those which did not fulfill the requirements of attendance and tithing. He was the head of the church and expected appropriate obeisance. Freethinkers had no place in his system.)

If not, how does one distinguish what you call Episcopalianism from Univeralist Unitarianism? I see no difference from your descriptions.

godfry n. glad (and case-sensitive about it, too)

Vylo

From my experience (I was baptized and confirmed roman catholic) the Catholic church is more about community then anything else, and I know that at least my church taught tolerance of differing faiths. They didn't feel the need to push it onto other people, they felt their actions and virtues would attract other people to their faith.

Shake

Well, I've seen both types of Catholics here is the States. Friends of the family had 4 kids (perhaps stopped when the father became paralyzed from the waist down), and then there was a couple the wife and I got to know down in SC. He'd been raised Catholic and was the last of 13 kids(!), but neither he nor his wife want any of their own! (Although I get the feeling they're some of those non-practicing types)

MollyMac

Surely the answer to this is that unitarians don't believe in the trinity - and are therefore not really xians at all.

Members of the Anglican Church Synod in this country were freethinking enough to appoint an openly gay (though "no longer practising") bishop this year. Alas, he was forced out by pressure from the growing evangelical wing of the church. He said something about Leviticus being irrelevant and Paul just being a product of his time.

I run a secular humanist ceremonies network and often have vicars phoning for advice because they've been asked to conduct non-religious funerals - a couple of vicars have applied to train as humanist funeral officiants (I turned them down).

BTW, This proselytising business seems to be partly cultural as well as denominational. I've never come across a proselytising protestant over here. The only proselytisers I meet are JWs, Mormons and the like.