Aerik Von

One thing I note, when reading the board sometimes is how much people state that they don't WANT to believe and how that effects the arguements they make. I don't think that HELPS the cause as one should choose a path because it is right, not because it's emotionally interesting to their own upbringing or purposes. It creates a big "weak spot" for Christians to remind us of how we are "rebellious" instead of logical.

I am an atheist BECAUSE of these facts, not because I wanted or did'nt want to be.

Thoughts on how emotions can damage the arguement and how we can make the arguement a tad bit better?

ebolamonger

well, i see it this way: i'm atheist because the facts point me that way, but it doesn't mean i am emotionless. sometimes it seems like it would be nice to have a religion to comfort me or give me all the answers. that's when i have to tell myself that i don't want to believe because as nice as it sounds, it just isn't true.

to me, it's like deciding whether or not i should eat greasy food (ok, yea, you can eat it sometimes and not get fat, but stay with me here). it's a short term gain, just like believing in some fairy tale would ease emotional pain, but in the long term, it's bad for me, just like i know believing was more painful to me in the long term.

to other people, the analogy might work more like a cigarette addiction. they see religion as unhealthy to them, they see the flaws, they might want out, but they need it emotionally as a crutch or circumstances force them to squash their questioning.

and for anyone that just wants to be atheist because it seems rebellious, cool, fashionable, sexy, or whatever, then they need to reexamine themselves and their motives. of course, anyone who says they hate god or want to be atheist just because their parents insist on religion puts a bad face on atheism.

-nikki-

CX

I'm certainly not the first to say it, but belief is not a matter simply of volition. You cannot really will yourself to believe something. You can delude yourself, sometimes until the day you die, but belief is an automatic response. Personally I'd prefer to believe in an ominbenevolent score keeper who's going to right all wrongs at the end of time and that I'll get to live with everyone I love forever in a utopian afterlife (assuming the dismal logical reality of living literally forever is some how obviated). Thing is...I simply can't make myself believe it.

CX

You can't hate what you don't believe exists to begin with. And atheism has no face to speak of. Atheism is one answer to one question and nothing more. That people add substantial metaphysical baggage to atheism does not dictate that such is entailed within atheism. Atheism is and only is the following:

Q: Do you believe in god?

A: No.

That's it. that's all there is. Hard to put a face on that if you ask me. Notice it doesn't say, "God does not exist", nor "We live in a natural universe governed by scientific laws," nor "Existence is all there is." It only says you don't believe in god.

CX

Watch it! Don't try to make smoking ANYTHING like religion, dammit! I smoke so I'll look cool and seem older. Wait a minute. I have no prayer of looking cool and I'm already 32 so the older thing is kind of goofy as well. Nevermind. Smoking IS like religion.

ebolamonger

oh, of course, i only meant that people who go around saying "i hate god" or want to be extremely anti-religion DO make other atheists look bad. of course, there's the whole question of whether someone who says they "hate god" is an atheist at all. (i don't think so). but if the only association someone has with people of no faith is the "i hate god crowd", then they wind up with preconceived notions. well....it's the only "emotional" problem i can see with atheism, and even then, that's not really atheism.

i think that whatever group of people you have, you'll always end up with some morons that do a bad job representing it.

AspenMama

This seems more suited to Miscellaneous. (Still in the no-preaching zone).

AspenMama

Aerik Von

I think you've captured my point entirely. In debates I am usually attacked on my character instead of my arguement, which is an attempt to get me to break face and show my "weak side".

ebolamonger

well, that's a problem with the attacker, not with you. i can't tell if you mean to say that i am attacking the character of atheists(that would be silly....i am atheist) or if i've showed this problem...?

but i've been attacked by people who tell me i "hate god", and i think that's their problem. however, i've also known people who say things like "yea i totally hate god cuz like religion sucks"....that's their emotional reaction to being forced to go to church or be religious. so i think there are people who feed into the religious notion of "god-hating".

Defiant Heretic

Emotion has no place whatsoever in any rational argument. An argument must stand on its own merits; it should not be dependent on chemical imbalances in the brain.