Freethought & Rationalism Archive

RRoman · 07-02-2003, 12:30 AM

Oh yeah, from the same dictionary that equates godlessness and immoralty

Not to mention that it completely ignores the actual composition of the word (as has been mentioned before) and its etymology

Quote:

[French ath�isme, from ath�e, atheist, from Greek atheos, godless : a-, without; see a-1 + theos, god; see dhs- in Indo-European Roots.]

Kthulhu · 07-02-2003, 12:43 AM

Ugh! This sounds like a direct quote from an obnoxious troll on the JREF (Randi.org) "Religion and Philosophy" forum named Franko. To head off the the eventual quoting of his favorite, extremely flawed syllogism he was fond of saying this:

1) Atoms are bound by The Laws of Physics (TLOP)
2) You and I are made of atoms
3) You and I are bound by TLOP

From this he would expound that this is proof that there is no free will or "free willy" as he would call it. It has been blasted apart in a thousand ways, shown to be a false syllogism (logically inconsistent), and still he would hammer away unabated. :banghead: This is not to even go into his belief in an omni-goddess controlling all this and releasing some subatomic particle or what not (honestly I don't have the patience to go back and look it up).

Christ If you are honestly asking about this line of "logic" don't lose a bit of sleep over it. It's crap and not worth even debating IMHO at this point.

However, if you ARE Franko by another name trying to insinuate yourself onto this board (and I sincerely hope not) just go the fuck away.

If you wish to see the full developement of his "arguments" and see what type of poster he is here's a link to all his posts on the JREF boards (I'm too tired to parse it out for relavent tidbits):

Franko on the JREF boards

~The Thing That Should Not Be

Randy X · 07-02-2003, 12:44 AM

Thanks guys for the support.

I'll try get this guys to post here, as it should be interesting.

Regards

Randy X · 07-02-2003, 12:56 AM

I'm not completely sure if this guy will come over.[roll eyes]

I was a bit offended by his statement about infidels.

His response -

Ahhh yes, the central recruiting grounds for the Cult of Dire Pessimism. I am very familiar with that forum. There assembled is the greatest collection of brainwashed fanatics the Internet has ever seen. Almost to a man utterly convinced that no evidence a flipped coin will land HEADS up means that it will definitely and positively land TAILS up.

� that toss as been rigged, but don�t take my word for it � just wait, sooner or later you are going to see for yourself. Of course by then, it will be too late to alter your Fate

This guys posts at http://www.matrixcommunity.org/cgi-b...24&p=3#000069, anyone is interested.He claims to be a logical deist(LD).

Regards

Kthulhu · 07-02-2003, 01:10 AM

Ok Christ, I will try and dig up some relevant threads tomorrow instead of just his overall postings on JREF. Unfortunately I can't tonight as the 6-7 bottles of Guiness I had are definitely not putting me in "the mood" to weigh through that poop tonight.

~The Thing That Should Not Be

Tau · 07-02-2003, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Christ
I'm not completely sure if this guy will come over.[roll eyes]

I was a bit offended by his statement about infidels.

His response -

Ahhh yes, the central recruiting grounds for the Cult of Dire Pessimism. I am very familiar with that forum. There assembled is the greatest collection of brainwashed fanatics the Internet has ever seen. Almost to a man utterly convinced that no evidence a flipped coin will land HEADS up means that it will definitely and positively land TAILS up.

� that toss as been rigged, but don�t take my word for it � just wait, sooner or later you are going to see for yourself. Of course by then, it will be too late to alter your Fate

This guys posts at http://www.matrixcommunity.org/cgi-b...24&p=3#000069, anyone is interested.He claims to be a logical deist(LD).

Regards

Okay, then that's settled. It is Franko. Not only does he use the name Serpent, an alias he's been known to use before, but he also calls himself a logical deist. Franko did that, and I've never seen anyone else use that expression. Heck, it doesn't even exist as an organized religion - googling for "logical deism" as a phrase yields exactly two pages.

My advice: Don't bother. Nothing will work against him. Take a look at this thread at randi.org for a good demonstration of what I mean.

Koyaanisqatsi · 07-02-2003, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Christ

I would love for you guys to disect this little "story" made by someone else that I found on another forum.

There's nothing there to "disect." It is self-evidently and self-confirmationally (to coin a phrase) false.

You might as well ask us to "disect" the fallacy, "So, have you stopped beating your wife?"

I join with the others in the invite. Kindly "PM" me when he/she grows up and decides to stop preaching to the choir and come here to really face the music

.

Randy X · 07-02-2003, 03:01 AM

This guys alias is "The Serpent".My alias over there, is the same as it is here, so hopefully the link will work, and you can talk some sense into "He that knows all".

Regards

Randy X · 07-02-2003, 03:07 AM

Some more ranting from "The Serpent"

Quote:

No it is not possible that You have �free will�. And if you want me to believe that it does, you are going to have to do the same thing you ask of a Christian � Prove to me that your �free willy god� exist. Give me the scientific, empirically verifiable evidence for �free will�. Otherwise I have no reason to believe in your magical powers.

Here�s the �scientific� evidence for the existence of �God�.

Atoms obey the laws of Physics.
You are made of atoms.
YOU obey the laws of Physics.

TLOP = The Laws of Physics

TLOP controls YOU controls CAR

In the same way that you are more conscious than your CAR and ergo YOU control CAR, (the source of) TLOP is more conscious than YOU and ergo TLOP controls YOU. Ergo, the source of TLOP is �God� � a �superior� consciousness which controls your every action cradle to grave.

To claim that (the source of) TLOP is �non-conscious� is analogous to claiming that YOU are non-conscious (or really less than non-conscious).

I assume nothing other than the false Religion of Atheism is pulling the same old tricks that EVERY false religion has pulled since the dawn of time. Ask an Atheist if their metaphysical beliefs constitute a �religion�.

Atheists think they are far far too special to be considered a mere religion!Well, all I can say is if you(Christ) are putting God on par with Santa and the Easter bunny then it is no wonder you were Destined to become an Atheist.

Then he says "How is TLOP (The Laws of Physics) not a God of Atheism?

According to Atheism doesn�t TLOP generate and control EVERYTHING in the universe? Kind of an Omnipotent, Omniscient, Higher Power over us?

Why assume that a universe ever popped into existence at all? What is Your evidence for this belief? As far as you know (as far as you can prove) YOU are the only thing that popped into existence out of no where, and YOU are just imagining the universe and everything in it.

I told you before that I lack a belief in the �Big Bang� (I am Atheistic about it). All you need to do to convince me that I am wrong is to prove that I am not a figment of your imagination. I know you cannot do this, because I happen to know that I don�t exist except as an algorithm in your subconscious.

It is my contention that God (in fact ALL consciousness) is merely a manifestation of Time, and as far as I know, Time has ALWAYS existed. If you are claiming otherwise you will have to explain what you mean.It is not �free will� that gives you the sensation of being �alive� � it�s perception. Perception is the defining trait of consciousness, and perception can ultimately be reduced to an awareness of Time

There is no evidence to refute the claim that an uncreated singularity (from which nothing can escape) could have created the universe, but there is also no evidence to support the claim that an uncreated singularity (from which nothing can escape) must have created, or at least did create, the Universe, so it ends as an unsupported, self-contradictory assumption.

If naked singularities magically appear and then spontaneously create universes with living entities why haven�t we ever witnessed this happening? I thought that NOTHING could escape a singularity � not even light?

Of course maybe this business is just your mind playing tricks on itself? What does the Atheist High-Priest Saint Hawking have to say on the matter?

�A black hole is a region of spacetime where gravity is so strong that NOTHING can escape and the laws of physics themselves breakdown and are no longer applicable�

That sounds like Solipsism! Here you are, trapped in a region of spacetime that you cannot escape, and the reason that the laws of physics have broken down is because YOU are �God�, and YOU ultimately determine the laws of physics (or there are no laws of physics, you�re �God� you call the shots!)

The alias that I use at "www.The Matrix Community.com" is also Christ, and ironically the "individual" that has posted this interesting article is named "The Serpent".Hopefully my link above will work.This forum(Matrix Community) is also highly religious, but THIS site however is simply the best amount of intelligent minds that i've ever met.I'm a long time reader, but a short time poster at infidels and i'm glad that i'm amongst you guys!

Regards

Randy X · 07-02-2003, 03:11 AM

Quote:

join with the others in the invite. Kindly "PM" me when he/she grows up and decides to stop preaching to the choir and come here to really face the music

Exactly right. But his tone is very disrespectful against athiesm in general, and he claims to be logical deist(not entirely sure what that is).I'm just glad that this site and the individuals that reside here, are the "real deal"(so to speak), as many have the credentials to speak with authority, and thats nice knowing as well.

Regards

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07-02-2003, 12:43 AM	#22
Kthulhu Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: R'lyeh Posts: 217	Ugh! This sounds like a direct quote from an obnoxious troll on the JREF (Randi.org) "Religion and Philosophy" forum named Franko. To head off the the eventual quoting of his favorite, extremely flawed syllogism he was fond of saying this: 1) Atoms are bound by The Laws of Physics (TLOP) 2) You and I are made of atoms 3) You and I are bound by TLOP From this he would expound that this is proof that there is no free will or "free willy" as he would call it. It has been blasted apart in a thousand ways, shown to be a false syllogism (logically inconsistent), and still he would hammer away unabated. :banghead: This is not to even go into his belief in an omni-goddess controlling all this and releasing some subatomic particle or what not (honestly I don't have the patience to go back and look it up). Christ If you are honestly asking about this line of "logic" don't lose a bit of sleep over it. It's crap and not worth even debating IMHO at this point. However, if you ARE Franko by another name trying to insinuate yourself onto this board (and I sincerely hope not) just go the fuck away. If you wish to see the full developement of his "arguments" and see what type of poster he is here's a link to all his posts on the JREF boards (I'm too tired to parse it out for relavent tidbits): Franko on the JREF boards ~The Thing That Should Not Be

07-02-2003, 12:44 AM	#23
Randy X Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Africa Posts: 258	Thanks guys for the support. I'll try get this guys to post here, as it should be interesting. Regards

07-02-2003, 12:56 AM	#24
Randy X Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Africa Posts: 258	I'm not completely sure if this guy will come over.[roll eyes] I was a bit offended by his statement about infidels. His response - Ahhh yes, the central recruiting grounds for the Cult of Dire Pessimism. I am very familiar with that forum. There assembled is the greatest collection of brainwashed fanatics the Internet has ever seen. Almost to a man utterly convinced that no evidence a flipped coin will land HEADS up means that it will definitely and positively land TAILS up. � that toss as been rigged, but don�t take my word for it � just wait, sooner or later you are going to see for yourself. Of course by then, it will be too late to alter your Fate This guys posts at http://www.matrixcommunity.org/cgi-b...24&p=3#000069, anyone is interested.He claims to be a logical deist(LD). Regards

07-02-2003, 01:10 AM	#25
Kthulhu Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: R'lyeh Posts: 217	Ok Christ, I will try and dig up some relevant threads tomorrow instead of just his overall postings on JREF. Unfortunately I can't tonight as the 6-7 bottles of Guiness I had are definitely not putting me in "the mood" to weigh through that poop tonight. ~The Thing That Should Not Be

07-02-2003, 03:01 AM	#28
Randy X Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Africa Posts: 258	This guys alias is "The Serpent".My alias over there, is the same as it is here, so hopefully the link will work, and you can talk some sense into "He that knows all". Regards

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