Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Mageth · 04-03-2002, 09:44 AM

One more thing the msg is wrong on is the Witchcraft etc./Ten Commandments thing. IIRC, comparative religion classes are free to study religions and religious texts (e.g. the Ten Commandments), along with other religions and religious texts. What is not allowed is the selective posting of a religious text (e.g. the 10C) or teaching of a particular religion by the school, as such would violate the establishment clause.

Godless Dave · 04-04-2002, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bunnytoes:
<strong>I wish they’d just stop doing the pledge. Why not teach school children civics rather than having them vomit up a few meaningless lines. </strong>

Because then they would understand that the government can't establish a religion, and that citizens have complete freedom of religion, among many other rights. Also, civics classes might encourage them to become educated about and involved in politics, which would take power away from defense contractors, energy companies, Focus on the Family and other behind-the-scenes groups who are more qualified to run the government than pesky citizens.

Quote:

Originally posted by bunnytoes:
<strong>With very little modification the pledge could be used for the most totalitarian countries </strong>

That's the idea! Stop questioning your government and pledge blind obedience, dammit!

Krieger · 04-04-2002, 06:47 PM

"I got the following email from a Christian friend las night:"

Yuck! I'm glad none of my Xian "friends" know my e-mail address. Hehe.

Bill Snedden · 04-07-2002, 01:13 PM

Personally, I feel that we should stop referring to such blatant falsehoods as "misconceptions" and call them what they are: lies.

Regards,

Bill Snedden

Flamewall · 04-08-2002, 04:29 AM

I am so happy that I live in Australia, not the USA. We don't need to take any pledges at school.

Rhea · 04-08-2002, 08:12 AM

Good response.

But I also support the "tell them it's a lie" approach". That's the way I like to respond to them. "Someone is lying to you. And by passing it on without checking any facts, you are, in turn, lying. Why? Is that the kind of person you want to be?"

And if they are really stubborn, I include, "Well you can do what you like for whatever motive moves you, of course. Especially if you want Christians to be known for believing whatever they hear without checking facts. Do you think this has any histoprical precedent? Perhaps 2000 years ago?"

Captain Pedantic · 04-08-2002, 08:43 AM

It's also not a very good poem, if we're covering all angles of criticism here. It doesn't scan or rhyme that well in places.

I've seen it a couple of times, and it's still stupid. Thankfully, I live in the UK, where we don't need to deal with these people so directly. Of course, I come here to read the stuff, but I'm funny like that.

HumanisTim · 04-10-2002, 10:30 AM

Which verse is it where Jesus condemns praying in public and says it should be done is secret. I'm sure thats a good one to bring up anytime the fundies start venting about school prayer. In some ways I hope they do bring prayer in school back. Only to laugh at them when it comes back to slap them in the face. when their children are coming home saying that the teacher lead them in a prayer to the earth goddess.

hezekiah jones · 04-10-2002, 10:37 AM

Matthew 6:5-6

Quote:

5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Arrowman · 04-14-2002, 09:15 PM

This e-mail has also turned up on the Youth Forum on Baptist Board - see this thread:

<a href="http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=22;t=000123" target="_blank">http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=22;t=000123</a>

I'm thinking of starting a thread in the "Free For All" area to take up this subject and help the poster understand some of the lies in the e-mail he apparently likes so much.

Also - the poster also says
" I think it is neat that the Little League pledge is quoted by every Little League baseball player before he plays. The first line of the pledge is, "I trust in God, I love my country..."

- Is that true?

Or is it a regional thing?

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04-03-2002, 09:44 AM	#11
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	One more thing the msg is wrong on is the Witchcraft etc./Ten Commandments thing. IIRC, comparative religion classes are free to study religions and religious texts (e.g. the Ten Commandments), along with other religions and religious texts. What is not allowed is the selective posting of a religious text (e.g. the 10C) or teaching of a particular religion by the school, as such would violate the establishment clause.

04-04-2002, 06:47 PM	#13
Krieger Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: ... Posts: 2,191	"I got the following email from a Christian friend las night:" Yuck! I'm glad none of my Xian "friends" know my e-mail address. Hehe.

04-07-2002, 01:13 PM	#14
Bill Snedden Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,597	Personally, I feel that we should stop referring to such blatant falsehoods as "misconceptions" and call them what they are: lies. Regards, Bill Snedden

04-08-2002, 04:29 AM	#15
Flamewall New Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: South Australia Posts: 4	I am so happy that I live in Australia, not the USA. We don't need to take any pledges at school.

04-08-2002, 08:12 AM	#16
Rhea Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Recluse Posts: 9,040	Good response. But I also support the "tell them it's a lie" approach". That's the way I like to respond to them. "Someone is lying to you. And by passing it on without checking any facts, you are, in turn, lying. Why? Is that the kind of person you want to be?" And if they are really stubborn, I include, "Well you can do what you like for whatever motive moves you, of course. Especially if you want Christians to be known for believing whatever they hear without checking facts. Do you think this has any histoprical precedent? Perhaps 2000 years ago?"

04-08-2002, 08:43 AM	#17
Captain Pedantic Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: UK. Posts: 588	It's also not a very good poem, if we're covering all angles of criticism here. It doesn't scan or rhyme that well in places. I've seen it a couple of times, and it's still stupid. Thankfully, I live in the UK, where we don't need to deal with these people so directly. Of course, I come here to read the stuff, but I'm funny like that.

04-10-2002, 10:30 AM	#18
HumanisTim Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Reading,PA Posts: 233	Which verse is it where Jesus condemns praying in public and says it should be done is secret. I'm sure thats a good one to bring up anytime the fundies start venting about school prayer. In some ways I hope they do bring prayer in school back. Only to laugh at them when it comes back to slap them in the face. when their children are coming home saying that the teacher lead them in a prayer to the earth goddess.

04-14-2002, 09:15 PM	#20
Arrowman Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 1,358	This e-mail has also turned up on the Youth Forum on Baptist Board - see this thread: <a href="http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=22;t=000123" target="_blank">http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=22;t=000123</a> I'm thinking of starting a thread in the "Free For All" area to take up this subject and help the poster understand some of the lies in the e-mail he apparently likes so much. Also - the poster also says " I think it is neat that the Little League pledge is quoted by every Little League baseball player before he plays. The first line of the pledge is, "I trust in God, I love my country..." - Is that true? Or is it a regional thing?

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