MrDarwin

I'm in the quackery opinion camp. My sister-in-law was using homeopathic remedies and had this whole kit of little vials. When her youngest daughter fell and bumped her head, she came running indoors, crying. SIL poppsed a little pill in her mouth. It had some mysterious herbal name, "arnica" or something like that. I asked what it was for, if it reduced pain, or prevented swelling, or what. She said it was "to restore the balance." What balance I asked??? She couldn't explain it and was rather distressed that I was asking questions about it. She had no idea what it was supposed to be doing, only that she had a little booklet that said use pill "X" for problem "Y".

My biggest concern was that she's training her children that whenever something goes wrong, there's a magic pill to make everything all better (unfortunately, a lesson we're already teaching our children with mainstream medicine).

Bree

Okay - I feel like I've been beaten into the ground. I should NEVER have replied to this thread - all I'm getting is ridicule and mockery from people that I hold in high esteem.

First of all, my grandfather is the "father" of chiropractic. He is the finest chiropractor in the world - Gurdur, if you know anything about chiropractic work in Australia, you might have heard of him - he's very big there. I had an S curve in my spine which prevented ballet dancing in any capacity, and the steel brace which the doctors put me in weakened my back muscles to the point where I could not dance at all. My grandfather knocked my back into alignment (gently, gently!) and after a year, I was dancing on tables in McDonalds. He also, coincidentally, is the chiropractor for the Green Bay Packers and the Joffrey Ballet in Chicago - not that it means anything to you, and you'll probably make fun of me for it.

I don't know what kind of "homeopathy" you guys are talking about, but obviously we're talking about two entirely different things. A solution of nystatin under my tongue takes away my fungus - that's all I know. I COULD take it straight-up (just the powder) but it made me gag (ish). Anti-fungal medication makes my toenails fall off, and as a dancer I CANNOT have anything getting in the way of my dancing, and I MUST take care of my feet. I'd love to send you pictures of my body parts (I looked like ET in the end of the movie) but my doctor has them all - to him, I'm the only "homeopathic" patient that has ever had real success.

I honestly am surprised at the people who suggest that believing that a medicine works is just the same as believing in prayer. I'm actually really hurt that someone would suggest I'm really that stupid. It's not my fault that Western medicine can't cure my disorder, whatever that may be. I'd really rather not be ground down because of it - I'm intelligent and "normal" and it just so happens that nothing else works.

Alek - I also have endometriosis, and I also found relief of pain through a change in diet and exercise. My doctor wanted to feed me hormone pills which would have put me in permanent menopause at age 16 - can you imagine a lifetime of hot flashes? With diet, exercise, AND proper birthcontrol pills/hormone replacements (see - I DO go to the "normal" doctor ) I have found relief from the pain. Hell - I was having honest-to-goodness contractions every time I had a period!

MrDarwin

That's absolutely true. However, 2 big differences:

1. In standard medicine, these naturally occurring compounds are not diluted to the point of nonexistence.

2. In standard medicine, any new medication or treatment of any kind must be rigorously and scientifically tested in controlled settings. Only those that have at least some degree of effectiveness (and minimum of dangerous side-effects) are approved for use. Can the same be said for homeopatic treatments?

"Natural" or folk remedies are indeed sometimes found to be effective, and it's possible to isolate a particular compound or groups of compounds that account for their effectiveness. On the other hand, some folk remedies are completely ineffective. How to separate the two? The scientific method.

Now, can anybody point us to these rigorous tests of homeopathic treatments?

[ May 20, 2002: Message edited by: MrDarwin ]</p>

Bree

See - I don't get this "diluted to the point of non-existance" - I must be practising the WRONG kind of homeopathy!

I stir the nystatin in water and hold it under my tongue (supposedly it absorbs faster under there) - I COULD take it straight up in powder form or swallow it, but it tastes nasty and goes down about as well as that stuff you take to make you shit.

Gurdur

I was once in the kitchen of a youth hostel, and this American bloke with a big concern sidles up to me and asks me in a hushed voice,
"hey Tim, you know a lot of medicine.
What are the symptoms of VD ?"

and I reply,
"Why ? What symptoms do you have ?"

He goes all red, and says , "shush, shush" and then he runs away.

2 days later he comes and confesses all to me.

Turns out he'ld walked into the VD clinic, and the young and pretty nurse says,
"Drop your trousers".

He does so, indicates problem area, and nurse looks, and says,
"Ooooo, I've never seen anything like that before, I'll have to call the doctor".

So this bloke is sweating heavily, then in walks the doc, takes one look at the American, and says,
"Nurse, we have a pregnant thigh here ! Ha ha ha !"

Turns out that a long while back the American had been playing ice hockey, and once his hockey stick jammed into his thigh, tearing the inner skin layers, thus giving permanent stretch marks on one spot on his thigh, which he had much later mistaken for a VD.

The nurse said to him,
"Well, now you can go out with bad girls again".
He replied,
"I never go out with bad girls"
to which she sniffed and turned away.

7 years later, it was the same bloke as pulled a gun on me (I had objected to him abusing his wife).

Americans. Go figure.

Mind you, I've never had a VD in my life myself, though with chronic malaria and a few other things at various times, I seem to have had almost everything else.

Veil of Fire

Bree: *I* believe you. I'm just as surprised as you are. Don't you just love "freethinkers" calling something they don't know shit about hocus-pocus, just because... ummm... well... because someone told them it was bunk?

MrDarwin: No. See my previous posts. Why would anyone with the resources test these things then give the results to the public? Why would Phizer tell us "Oh, hey, we did these tests on Damiana, and, well, lo and behold, it works just as well as our high-priced pill. But we can't patent it, and you people who live in the south can grow it in your backyard. So you really don't have to buy our pills anymore. Sorry for making you pay all that money!"

[edit]
Oh, by the way...
"In standard medicine, these naturally occurring compounds are not diluted to the point of nonexistence."
Yes they are. Digitalis was, originally, and it still fixed Dropsy just as effectively. Most curaries are VERY heavily diluted by a similar process; otherwise they'll just kill you.

[ May 20, 2002: Message edited by: Veil of Fire ]</p>

Gurdur

Hey Bree,
NOTHING I have written in this thread was meant as mockery or ridicule in any way whatsoever, or in any way as an attack on you --- I've already posted that I'm simply NOT IN this argument.

I really hope you don't think I was attacking you.

[ May 20, 2002: Message edited by: Gurdur ]</p>

MrDarwin

Um... who produces these homeopathic preparations? And do they give them away for free?

MrDarwin

Bree, it's possible that what you're doing isn't homeopathy at all. Herbal remedies and homeopathy are not synonymous.

Veil of Fire

You really think "AllHerbal.com" has the kind of facilities or money to conduct a chemical trial you and your buddies wouldn't laugh off the board if someone brought it up as evidence? Especially considering each of these companies makes about as much money as a single small grocery store?