Veil of Fire

"It takes a couple of micrograms of even something as deadly as tetrodotoxin"

LD50 of tetrodotoxin, in mice, is 10 micrograms kg^-1. I only know that because it's the same as saxitoxin.

(To everyone else: For comparison, Sodium (?) Cyanide has an LD50 in mice of 10 miligrams kg^-1)

Gurdur

I'll make a public note here:

It seems that Corwin is being deliberately trollish (I base this on this and another thread);
I recommend not trying to seriously answer.

MrDarwin

"Trollish" or "devil's advocate"? I see he's using the "cool" smiley (the one with sunglasses) on his posts.

alek0

DFRSeven:
Thanks, I'll have to discuss this with my doc. I don't like the part on adverse cardiac events (I'm having some problems in that department) and I bet she won't like it either since just recently she sent me to cardiologist again. Anyway, auras last only about half an hour to one hour, and I can deal with pain. Years of endo have certainly built up my pain tolerance.

Gurdur

Since he uses that on all his posts, practically, I doubt you can read much into that.

As for being a Devil's Advocate, no; there's a wee bit too much incoherence or irrelevancies in his recent posts - they look very explicitly trollish to me.

Corwin

My my my. You DO read a lot into smilies don't you?

Both smallpox and cowpox were used. Eventually only cowpox was used since it was discovered to be less dangerous. Likewise the polio vaccine? Used polio, originally the dead virus, then later a weakened form.

Tron.... you can talk about dilution levels all you want.... says nothing about it's effectiveness. As has been stated, blowfish toxin can be lethal even when heavily diluted.

Fact remains, for SOME THINGS it works, and works very well. Again, it's not a catchall, it doesn't cure EVERYTHING.... and there are things it works for that we have conventinal treatments for. Freqently this works as well more cheaply, and/or with fewer side effects. Having dealt with the side effects of conventional medicine, I can see the validity in this. If you've never had to, odds are you can't. It really is that simple.

Bree

DISCLAIMER

My nystatin treatment is NOT homeopathy, since it is not diluted for potency in any way, shape, or form. Apparently my MD mistakenly named it thusly because you hold the solution or powder under the tongue.

At any rate, I'm just curious as to why everyone is so against placebos. If they're "helping" the patient (i.e. they feel less pain or experience less symptoms) why does it matter HOW it is administered - unless of course the "treatment" is actually causing harm?

Someone7 - just get your griping with me out into the open and over with. I'm sick of playing these games.

Someone7

Ah come on, you play so well...

Mad Kally

Bree,
Everyone is not against the placebo effect. It's really an amazing and wonderful thing, as long as the placebo isn't harmful. I've alternated injections of MS with NS (morphine sulfate and normal saline). They both worked equally well on a hospital patient. (known as a drug seeker in the medical profession) He was high as a kite after either injection. If he asked what it was I answered either NS or MS. He never noticed the difference.

tronvillain

Corwin:
Get it through your skull: if you dilute past the dilution limit you are virutally guaranteed to have none of the original substance. If you dilute blowfish toxin to homeopathic levels, it will be completely harmless.

Homeopathy, in of itself, does not cure anything. With the aid of the placebo effect (which is extremely complex) it may help. Now, I don't necessarily have anything against the placebo effect, but homeopathy can potentially be harmful by causing people to forgoe convention medicine. It really is that simple.