CX

The problem is that all such discussions of biblical stories (i.e. How did the Red Sea part, How did Jesus appear to ressurect, How did David slay Goliath) are entirely premature in that they are predicated on the idea that there is some historical truth the stories as they are presented. Given that such is never established prior to such discussions and that in fact the very same is often highly unlikely to be historical to begin with, trying to arrive at a rational explanation is like trying to explain based on current scientific knowledge how the transporters on Star Trek work. It's all foolishness discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. St. Paul was right and so were the Gentiles (1 Cor 1:23)

Koyaanisqatsi

Killjoy.

Ted Hoffman

CX
The problem is that all such discussions of biblical stories (i.e. How did the Red Sea part, How did Jesus appear to ressurect, How did David slay Goliath) are entirely premature in that they are predicated on the idea that there is some historical truth the stories as they are presented.
Egypt is real. The Red Sea is real. Why shouldnt they be examined for historical truth?

Given that such is never established prior to such discussions and that in fact the very same is often highly unlikely to be historical to begin with, trying to arrive at a rational explanation is like trying to explain based on current scientific knowledge how the transporters on Star Trek work. It's all foolishness discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. St. Paul was right and so were the Gentiles (1 Cor 1:23)

So the stories should be dismissed as myths of a desert tribe.

Jayhawker Soule

Kansas is real. Tornadoes are real. ...

Radcliffe Emerson

The scientific explanations I have seen also say it should be called the Sea of Reeds, and there is a marsh-like shallow area at the northern part (of the Red Sea I think) where people could cross through on foot, but not with horses and chariots.

deank

Well, I'm going to do a little test. I was answered a question about Jewish mythology and referred to the Hebrew God as YHVH. If she doesn't pick up on it I'll just cry.

I'm going to take a look at some of the Baal myth connection a little closer and see what she says about it.

-Dean

CX

That real places are mentioned in fictional stories is irrelevant vis-a-vis deciding how the stories occurred. It is putting the cart before the horse to ask such questions without establishing first that such events occurred in some fashion whether it be different than the mythology or not.

I'd say, unless compelling evidence is presented that anything like the Exodus ever occurred. Presently it seems highly unlikely given the archaeological and extra-biblical textual evidence that Egypt ever had a significant population of semitic forced labor or that 600,000 Hebrew men and their families fled Egypt on foot in one mass Exodus or that that sizable a group wandered the Sinai desert for 40 years. Or...

Jayhawker Soule

While I agree with your main point, I did find the following interesting:

Kosh

Ignorant Bronze Age Goat Herders (tm)

Ted Hoffman

CX
That real places are mentioned in fictional stories is irrelevant vis-a-vis deciding how the stories occurred. It is putting the cart before the horse to ask such questions without establishing first that such events occurred in some fashion whether it be different than the mythology or not.
I disagree. If I read a story saying a man in New York jumped from the 90th floor and was saved by angels when he was just about to hit the pavement, am I just suppose to dismiss it as myth?
The story will get my attention because it mentions a real place and a putatively real person. It is only after examining the story that I can dismiss it as a lie.
If the stories in the bible (Exodus specifically) were treated as myth, I would treat them as myth, but they are treated as history.
Irrespective of their absurd nature, they are presented as history. Many Jews consider them their heritage.

To add on that, I believe we are more interested in WHETHER the stories took place, not HOW they took place.

I mean if they tell us Lots wife turned to a pillar of salt, or that the red sea parted, naturally, we would need to first believe whethet it really parted before we could go into the details of how.

So in summary, we should ask ourselves, how wide is the red sea?
And how deep is it?
Can striking it with a stick part it?
If it parts, what will hold the waters back?
While the waters are held back, will the seabed be dry for horses to gallop across?
Is the seabed flat for such a gallop?
How will the waters know that the Israelites have passed and flood the seabed and drown the Egyptians?

How far is Israel from Egypt?
How long can one take to walk on foot from Israel to Egypt?
If food is carried on camelbacks and donkeys etc. How long will it last in the desert?
From where would they get food once their supplies were over?
What were the Israelites wearing? How long did the clothes last?
Are there some words Hebrews borrowed from Egyptians during their stay there?
Did they borrow any traditions from the Egyptians?
Can frogs appear from nowhere?

And so on and so forth. Then one can decide to rubbish the whole damn story. Or cherish it as a rich history of Gods chosen people.

[ June 14, 2002: Message edited by: IntenSity ]</p>