Jinto

Actually, there is not one place in the bible (that I know of) where the BIBLE states that God is omnipotent. We have several places in the bible where it states that someone says He is omnipotent (often Jesus or God himself), but the bible itself never says that. So even IF the bible is true, that still does not prove God is omnipotent. Only that he says he is. And would you believe me to be omnipotent if I said I was? I sure as hell hope you wouldn't. Or perhaps I would like that... I am omnipotent. Worship me.

AsimovsProtege

"Actually, there is not one place in the bible (that I know of) where the BIBLE states that God is omnipotent. We have several places in the bible where it states that someone says He is omnipotent (often Jesus or God himself), but the bible itself never says that. So even IF the bible is true, that still does not prove God is omnipotent. Only that he says he is. And would you believe me to be omnipotent if I said I was? I sure as hell hope you wouldn't. Or perhaps I would like that... I am omnipotent. Worship me."

I'm looking at this from the christian perspective. I posed the questions (is god omnipotent, omnipresent, and all-good) on a christian forum), and they all said yes to all questions. Now, from the christian perspective, the Bible is Gods Word, so we must assume that Christian God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and all-good.


Ok, now we get to what people are saying about lack of evil not being a limitation.

If God cannot go against his nature, he is limited. If his nature is all-good, and he cannot do something against that, he is limited.

It is not in our nature to fly, however we went against our nature, and can now fly. We overcame that limitation. I don't believe there is good and evil, so if you look at it from my point of view, not being able to go against ones nature is a limitation. As every action is neutral (neither good nor evil), not being able to do an action is a limitation.


There is no standard to set omnipotence to. However, the definition means "One having unlimited power or authority"
So, we can assume, one who can do anything he wishes. And omnipotent being cannot have a nature to go against, as that is contradictory to the term, "can do anything". So, the Christian God cannot be omnipotent.

Conchobar

Only if you define God as omnipotent and all good, and then you can't explain God's evil acts recorded in the Bible. Of course you can reject the Bible as lies, then the Bible cannot be used in God's trial by the International Court at The Hague for genocide.

Conchobar

Mageth

It does not say that the Lord repented to anyone in fact it says "it repented the Lord", which means that he was sorry.

Well, some translations (e.g. KJV) say that, and some (e.g. NKJF) say he was "sorry", but some (e.g. Young's, Webster's, and Darby's) say "And the LORD (or Jehovah) repented".

And the "who to" bit on my part was, well, a bit rhetorical. God would have to repent to himself, of course . A bit silly, that.

So if one looks at the verse with this in mind he receives:
"And the Lord was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."

Looking at an Oxford online dictionary, I find this definition for "sorry":

1 pained, regretful, penitent.

Then I find these Thesaurus entries:

1 apologetic, ashamed, conscience-stricken, contrite, guilt-ridden, penitent, regretful, remorseful, repentant, shamefaced.

All of these odd things for an omnimax god to feel, wouldn't you say?

If it makes you happy, I'll rephrase the question: If god is perfect, omnipotent, and incapable of doing wrong, why was he sorry for making man shortly before drowning the world in Noah's flood?

You don't gain anything by that.

Now the statements that "Lord was sorry" and it grieved him at his heart are intertwined. If you trust the gospel of Mark it explains it all. For instance, Mark 3:5 reads:
"And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, stretch forth thine hand."

Well, that's a totally different verse from a totally different situation, and apparently talking about a totally different god. Jesus didn't kill those people that grieved him, did he, like the OT Jehovah did? If that's all Jehovah felt in Genesis, why drown everyone? "I'm sorry they're acting so bad; I guess I'll just have to drown them."

So one sees that the Lord was sorry that the humans during Noahs day's did not believe in him, and their ways had stirred up his just anger.

Here's the bottom line: what the bible clearly says Jehovah was sorry for, repented for, was making man in the first place. Read Gen. 6:6-7. You can't escape that plain reading of the text. That's why he wanted to wipe mankind out - to make up for his mistake, to clean up after himself, to start over with a clean slate. No amount of biblical gymnastics or comparison of non-relevant verses can change, should change, the plain reading of the text.

Magus55

Almighty is synonimous with omnipotent. Not sure omnipotent was even a word back then.

Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I [am] the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Gen 35:11 And God said unto him, I [am] God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;

And then there are some 60 references from others to God being Almighty.

Magus55

Yes He can, because omnipotence means virtually unlimited - not can do absolutely anything imaginable, even that which is a paradox. God sets the standard for omnipotence - since He said he is omnipotent ( assuming the Bible is true) - then omnipotence is defined as absolute power over anything that doesn't contradict your own nature.

From webster's:

Omnipotent:

2 : having virtually unlimited authority or influence

Almighty

2 : relatively unlimited in power

Anything contrary to God's nature - is a limitation by His standard of perfection - which no being in existence is even 1 trillionth a percent near that standard. Therefore, anything God can't do means its below what He can do - as in a limitation. Being able to commit evil is a limitation, because being All-good is the perfect and holy standard of God - by which no one can match.

The only limitations you claim are paradoxes. To the human mind, God can do absolutely anything - as long as it isn't a contradiction - because if it were a contradiction, it its illogical and irrational to be done. Come up with one example of something that an all-powerful being can do, that doesn't defy his own eternal nature - and God can do it. That is what omnipotence is. You can't get any more powerful than saying let it be so, and creating an entire universe of infinite complexity.

Darth Dane

Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I [am] the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Is Abraham considered perfect today?

Gen 35:11 And God said unto him, I [am] God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;

If Abraham is perfect, it means all his descendants also are perfect. We are the sons and daugthers of Abraham, in succesion, and thus perfect ourselves, according to the bible it seems.




DD - Love Spliff

AsimovsProtege

Well, Magus55....it seem we have a difference of opinion on the definition of omnipotent.

www.dictionary.com defines omnipotent as

"Having unlimited or universal power, authority, or force; all-powerful"

My Webster's II New Riverside Dictionary defines omnipotent as

"Having absolute power and authority"

So, by my definition I'm right, and by your definition, you're right.

Appius

Well in this case it would be interesting to look at the original Hebrew, but undfortunately I do not know Hebrew. However, I did look at the vulgate, and Jerome uses the verb paenitere in the third person. In the third person the verb means to cause regret, make sorry, displease-looked at Cassell's Latin Dictionary
for this exact definition. Thus, technically as it looks like so far any one of the definitions you gave would be correct here. Yet one must still look at the context for the correct meaning. Which brings me to the point I wish to clarify. For instance in Genesis 5:5 it reads:
"And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
Which gives one a background on why God was repenting. He was repenting because man had sinned. So by the context this definition for sorry holds:
expressing sympathy or empath, especially because of something that has happened. ex.-I'm sorry that you're leaving. From Encarta World English Dictionary St. Martin's Press New York 1999.
So what had happened?-Man had sinned and God was sad that man had done so. This also agrees with the rest of verse six. For example, the second part of verse six says "it grieved him at his heart." Thus, one sees that God is sad, afterall he was grieving for the creation since man was so sinful. Yet, even though God is merciful, which implies that he loves, God is also just. In addition he is also a jealous God, which applies here for one gets the impression that the men then were not honoring him. So, I do not think that all the thesaurus entries you gave apply all at the same time to this one moment.

Appius

What I think Magus is saying is that when you apply omnipotence to God you have to take his other natures into account. Thus even though God is omnipotent he also is holy; therefore, if God were to make a promise he would keep it-he can not break it. Whereas omnipotence without holiness means he could make a promise and then break it. However, I could have just miscontrued his ideas completely.