Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ex-preacher · 04-10-2002, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by luvluv:
Okay ex-preacher, lets assume all of those were fine. Would you hang out with a man who routinely had consensual sex with his daughter? I'm not even talking about child abuse, I'm talking she's of age and it's consensual, but she is his 21 year old daughter.

Nope - and I sure wouldn't worship him. Here's my basic philosophy: mentally competent and consenting adults should be allowed to do as they please with whomever they please. That doesn't mean I should have to hang out with them. In the case of a grown man and daughter having consensual sex, I would suspect that one or both are not mentally competent.

What's your solution - send them to hell for all eternity?

free12thinker · 04-10-2002, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David Gould:
In what sense can it be described as wrong?

I wouldn't want to do it but if others want to <shrug>

The negative consequences could be the production of a deformed child but I do not know what the odds of such an occurrence is.

If they are responsible or are infertile, what possible bad could result except for society's dissapproval? And if the dissaproval has no basis, then it is the society that has created the bad outcome and not the act itself.

I couldn't have put it better myself. I don't know what the odds of having a deformed child are, but if those odds were less or equal to the odds of "any" pregancy having a deformed child, than what's really morally wrong with incest. If it is consenting, let them go at it. Although it may sound sick to us (like homosexuality does to some people), there isn't a strong enough argument to dub it sinful or morally wrong. Gross is not an argument.

On the other hand, if incest in itself proved to lead to a high number of deformed children, than the negative impact (deformed children) would make the initial act a danger, but....we just don't know.

free12thinker · 04-10-2002, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by luvluv:
Okay ex-preacher, lets assume all of those were fine. Would you hang out with a man who routinely had consensual sex with his daughter? I'm not even talking about child abuse, I'm talking she's of age and it's consensual, but she is his 21 year old daughter.

David Gould, same question?

I'll provide an opinion. If they were both consenting to it, I would find no objections. I would hang out with them, sure. Why not. If there are no repercussions to others, than it bothers me none.

David Gould · 04-10-2002, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by luvluv:
Okay ex-preacher, lets assume all of those were fine. Would you hang out with a man who routinely had consensual sex with his daughter? I'm not even talking about child abuse, I'm talking she's of age and it's consensual, but she is his 21 year old daughter.

David Gould, same question?

Probably not. But what is morally wrong with it? It just makes me uncomfortable, as I have been socialised that way.

pug846 · 04-10-2002, 05:45 PM

Luvluv said:

Quote:

The adverse consequences of casual sex are intrinsic in the act.

I�m not sure you understand the words you are using. If casual sex is indeed intrinsically wrong, then it doesn�t matter what the consequences happen to be. Whether casual sex had good or bad consequences would be moot if it was intrinsically wrong.

Since you generally fail to actually argue for your moral positions, I�d like to follow suite.

It is intrinsically wrong for people of different races to marry. On the other hand, it is intrinsically good for people to engage in casual sex.

See how fun argument by assertion can be?

MadMordigan · 04-10-2002, 05:53 PM

Thank you for caring about my emotions, luvluv. But the fact remains that I feel more hurt by not getting casual sex than by getting it. Perhaps you could come by and fix this situation.

Samhain · 04-10-2002, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by free12thinker:


I couldn't have put it better myself. I don't know what the odds of having a deformed child are, but if those odds were less or equal to the odds of "any" pregancy having a deformed child, than what's really morally wrong with incest. If it is consenting, let them go at it. Although it may sound sick to us (like homosexuality does to some people), there isn't a strong enough argument to dub it sinful or morally wrong. Gross is not an argument.

On the other hand, if incest in itself proved to lead to a high number of deformed children, than the negative impact (deformed children) would make the initial act a danger, but....we just don't know.

The latter possibility is all but eliminated by modern birth control (not including abortion), so how could we say this argument could prove intrinsic evilness of such an act? It still all adds up to responsibility and accountability.

Pomp · 04-10-2002, 10:46 PM

MadMordigan,

Thank you for caring about my emotions, luvluv. But the fact remains that I feel more hurt by not getting casual sex than by getting it. Perhaps you could come by and fix this situation.

I don't know whether or not this will make a difference Mad, but luvluv is a man, man.

Pomp · 04-10-2002, 10:50 PM

luvluv,

OOh! I want to play too!

Would you hang out with a man who routinely had consensual sex with his daughter? I'm not even talking about child abuse, I'm talking she's of age and it's consensual, but she is his 21 year old daughter.

Given that, as you say, there is no abuse involved and assuming that they are using adequate birth control, I have no objection to their actions so, yes, I suppose I would hang out with them, provided that I enjoyed their company.

Samhain · 04-10-2002, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pompous Bastard:
MadMordigan,

Thank you for caring about my emotions, luvluv. But the fact remains that I feel more hurt by not getting casual sex than by getting it. Perhaps you could come by and fix this situation.

I don't know whether or not this will make a difference Mad, but luvluv is a man, man.

That's a big fucking "oops".

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04-10-2002, 05:53 PM	#26
MadMordigan Beloved Deceased Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 2,704	Thank you for caring about my emotions, luvluv. But the fact remains that I feel more hurt by not getting casual sex than by getting it. Perhaps you could come by and fix this situation.

04-10-2002, 10:46 PM	#28
Pomp Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Indianapolis area Posts: 3,468	MadMordigan, Thank you for caring about my emotions, luvluv. But the fact remains that I feel more hurt by not getting casual sex than by getting it. Perhaps you could come by and fix this situation. I don't know whether or not this will make a difference Mad, but luvluv is a man, man.

04-10-2002, 10:50 PM	#29
Pomp Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Indianapolis area Posts: 3,468	luvluv, OOh! I want to play too! Would you hang out with a man who routinely had consensual sex with his daughter? I'm not even talking about child abuse, I'm talking she's of age and it's consensual, but she is his 21 year old daughter. Given that, as you say, there is no abuse involved and assuming that they are using adequate birth control, I have no objection to their actions so, yes, I suppose I would hang out with them, provided that I enjoyed their company.

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