SimplyAtheistic

I understand what you are saying, but I would have no problem lowering the drinking age if we lost 2000 more teenagers a year to DUI accidents, you probably would. We just don't agree on what is acceptable. I am not afraid of death, and I don't run away from it. I don't invite it by any means, but I promote activities that might have a higher risk of death, and that is probably unacceptable to you.
Jake

Dominus Paradoxum

I made this exact point many pages ago, and interestingly enough, pat refused to reply to it.

Pat, you are ignoring koy's posts and the points he made. Also, for someone so 'rational', you seem to be forgetting that anecdotal evidence proves nothing! It is also interesting that A) we don't know where these stories are coming from (your messageboards, I would assume) B) In the first two cases you provided, the partners were not adults, and the encounters were initiated by the children.

keyser_soze

Read the above....

Dominus Paradoxum

Then you're remarkably selfish. I suppose what your family and friends would think if you died is of no concern to you?

SimplyAtheistic

I can't imagine what it would be like to lost a family, it would be a horrible ordeal. Even as painful as that may be, I still insist on the freedom of others. I am young so I may lack the conservative attitude you bear, but this frees me to think in a more open way.
Jake

SimplyAtheistic

Remarkably selfish? I suppose you opposed the American Revolution then, as it cost many lives for pesky freedom. Adults with families need to realize that their safety DOES NOT override the freedom of others. You are beginning to sound like our president who is pushing the PATRIOT act, a bill that flies in the face of our constitution. And just for fun, how can I be concerned about my family when I am dead?
Jake

Dominus Paradoxum

You can't. But what they would go through when you are dead can still matter to you while you're alive. And the issue is not one of "freedom". You don't have the "right" to drive while drunk because you're very likely to cause injury or death to others. No one has the "right" to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater.

SimplyAtheistic

A hypothetical situation worries me not in the least bit.
Jake

Grizzly

Pat,

Without corroboration, your "first hand accounts" are far from first hand. So far, I have to admit that the actual posters on this thread who gave testimony to the damage that was caused to them were far more compelling. Your accounts, so far, lack credibility.

keyser_soze

We see what you do not because you are young, and because..despite your statement that you are not afraid to die, you have not yet attained the ability to CONCIEVE of your death yet. We were there already, we know exactly how you feel. Truly think on what you just said, that you could not imagine the aftermath of losing a family. Until you can, you cannot comprehend WHY we feel the way we do. You don't see it yet, and when you do it will be some time from now, and you will feel shame that you could have ever thought in such a selfish manner. Care to know how I know? Because I DID IT TOO. I can look back and see all the dumb things I did, that at the time didn't seem so terrible, but looking back on it now, I know how close I came to causing something that would have cost me my conscience for the rest of my life. Other's may lose their lives. It seems simple and plain now, but what if YOU were responsible for the death of a little kid? Yeah, I know, you would be ready to accept responsibility for your miscalculation. But exactly what do you think the parents of your statistic are going to feel like? Can you not even imagine for a moment the look on their face. You think losing your life is the worse thing there is? You are sadly mistaken. That is the least of things, I assure you. The worst thing you could do in that instance is LIVE to dwell on what you did. Think on it some more, imagine the various scenarios....and then realize, that it can be SO MUCH WORSE THAN THAT. I had a friend in high school who had an accident...only had one beer, and felt absolutely no effects. But his perception was off, as was his reaction time. His girlfriend since the 6th grade was impaled by a guard rail. It took her two hours to die, and he was with her the whole time because it took 45 minutes for someone to happen upon the scene and another hour to cut them out of the car. He walked away without a scratch. But she was concious almost to the point where they got her free. You can't imagine pain yet, physical pain is nothing. You have yet to feel any real pain, and it will shake you when it comes.