Infidelettante

As in "Thou shalt have no other gods before me"?
or "I am the way the truth and the life, no man
comes to the Father but by me"?

JT

rainbow walking

You have no choice because you were created in the image of God and once you know who you really are you will realize that you are the continuity of God. The alternative would be to live the unexamined life.


Sorry Amos but I look and act more like my daddy and am likely the continuity of his family line. I examine my life everyday as it unfolds...so there must be another alternative.

Amos

Isn't that lovely and just the proof I needed to show that you are the incarnate son of your father. Your behavior is, of course, not genetic because you can change your behavior while the inclination to behave like your father is incarnate upon you through your subconscius mind (your soul). It is also in this manner that you pay for the sins of your father and reap the benefits of his virtues (of course females have an equal influence but that is not the argument here).

If the full extent of this hereditary "determination" upon you was known to you it can be said that you no longer have a soul and are a Freeman. The soul is equated with the celestial sea, or the waters, and you conscious mind is equal to the earth, or land, or your world.

HelenM

Hi lwf

I have encountered a few people online who approach the Bible this way and it seems to me, with all due respect, that all you and they are doing, is taking what you hold to be true and claiming it's all 'hidden in the Bible somewhere'.

But, if so, why would God hide such important things? Why not make them clear?

And since they are hidden, how will you ever know whether you interpreted them correctly?

I don't see how you can be sure you're finding things that God hid there for the day you came along and why God would choose you to find what no-one else has (no offense). I don't see how you can know you aren't just manipulating the text until you can make it say what you hold to be true.

Do you truly believe studying the hidden meaning of the Bible has shown you truths you never would have discovered otherwise? Do you see the Bible as unique in being a book encoded with hidden truth? Are there other books like this, too?

I hope you don't mind me asking these questions

Helen

Theli

Isn't that the problem with searching for evidence to support a claim you already believe in? You will find it regardless of weither the claim is true or not. Just keep the logic vague and filter the information available. I'm sure you could "prove" that the bible was writen by marsmen, if you had the time to do it.

long winded fool

Not at all. And I don't think that the I've discovered something in the Bible that I would never have discovered otherwise. I think logic and reason are something everyone discovers. I think the control of one's instincts with wisdom are the goals of most people, and that those who don't see these as goals are mistaken. I think many (certainly not all) atheists have discovered the wisdom contained in the Bible without the Bible, and that they are better "Christians" (in the sense of following the teachings of Christ) than many who call themselves christian. Most fundamentalist christians are the equivalent of the Pharisees of the New Testament. They blindly follow the religion of the day and allow it to replace their logic and reasoning ability. Indeed, I had already discovered these things before I read the Bible. When a friend asked me to read it, I found that the character Jesus was also aware of these things and probably much more. To me, they weren't hidden. The traditional interpretation, in my opinion, is what came about by people finding what they wanted to hear and believe.

You know when you've interpreted symbolism correctly when all the contradictions disappear. I believe I've interpreted the words of Jesus correctly simply because they make more sense when one allows for this allegory. Things like satanic temptation and long periods of prayer to the Lord become less supernatural and more like the things that almost everyone knows in their heart are wise human behaviors. It is wise to think before you leap. To not judge your neighbor by the color of his skin. To not bring a child into the world unprepared. I read the Bible in an attempt to see if it could be logically meshed with 21st century skepticism and wisdom and I found not only that it can, but that the character of Jesus seemed to know that it would be. I could certainly be off base here, but I've spent quite a while trying to prove just this and I haven't been able to. I have yet to find anything that directly contradicts this analogy, whereas when one interprets the symbolism literally, contradictions pop up left and right. Isn't it more logical to go with the less contradictory interpretations when attempting to ascertain the quality of the Bible?

There are certainly other books with hidden wisdom and allegorical truths. The Bible is by far the best IMO, or at least the most intricate. Are these hidden truths put there by a deity? No. Are they put there by genius and inspiration? Yes, I believe so. There are too many parallels throughout too many books in the Bible to make me believe that they are accidents or coincidences. The imagry and symbolism that Bible scholars are still discovering were known to the authors. Most responsible Christians apply symbolism to the otherwise ridiculous stories of the Bible. Not many take the next step and apply symbolism to the supernatural beings and miracles of the Bible. Whether the authors did or not we can't know, but as I read, I get the distinct impression that they knew exactly what they were saying. The wisdom is not hidden, it is there for the wise to perceive and, in doing do, become wiser. To ask why God would make the discovery of wisdom so difficult to comprehend is akin to asking why it's so difficult to learn calculus or to develop large muscles. The process is what gets you the conclusion. The intellectual effort is what makes you a good "student of wisdom." Since the application of reason is a difficult art to master, it is logical to test the limits of your reasoning ability in order to improve it. You don't need to read the Bible, but I think the wise will find it accurate in regards to the human condition if they do read it, and will find it helpful in becoming wiser and more honest.

HelenM

Thanks for your response, lwf.

So, are you an atheist who finds truth and wisdom in the Bible provided that you are free to interpret it allegorically?

Helen

long winded fool

I'd be more comfortable with the term agnostic. I have no reason to believe in an omnipotent life-form, however I don't know that there isn't some kind of "grand consciousness" of humanity or what have you. There are too many phenomena that I can't explain to call myself a strong atheist.

HelenM

Thanks for the answer - I was just curious

Helen

7thangel

The problem is actually simple. God created us in His image, in the image of having knowledge of good and evil. Now, how could he have knowledge of good and evil without experiencing them, directly or indirectly? We need to experience good and evil to have knowledge of good and evil, and in thus way we become in the image of God.

Now, in the Bible, Adam and Eve were disallowed to eat of the “tree of knowledge of good and evil,” instead, same as God, they should eat of the “tree of life.” To cut it short, Adam and Eve were disallowed to have life through knowledge of good and evil, instead that they should live according to wisdom. As you can see, again, wisdom cannot come without having knowledge of good and evil. Therein we see the image of God as the one who lives according to wisdom, which is the likeness that we are being lead to through having knowledge of good and evil.

I guess I have to point out, that Wisdom is very unique to just having knowledge of good and evil, though, as we know it, wisdom cannot come without knowledge of good and evil. Wisdom speaks of a purpose. In wisdom, the value of good would be assigned to the purpose, or goal, or the “best end.” Example, grounding a child is evil, but it will not be so if it will lead the child to behave properly. Giving freedom to children is good, but it will not be so if, it will lead the child to misbehave. These good and evil, grounding and freeing, are being given to our children to experience to lead them unto wisdom, which is the good behavior. The same reason is why God put us to experience these good and evil in this world; to have knowledge of good and evil until we come unto having wisdom.

Now, knowledge of good and evil, with the implication of God’s existence, is far complicated. Hence we have to understand the distinction of Creator-creation relationship. The complication gets deeper when God shows that men are mere His creation, it would seem to show injustice to those who were not chosen, or were given as example to end in mere destruction, the opposite of those whom God had chosen unto the glory of eternal life. Such were seen in the examples of the doctrine of Paul of predestination according to God’s purpose. But such is necessary to exists for us to experience and have knowledge of the godhead, of our relationship unto God as mere creation, and then therefore understand the wisdom of God behind all things.

God bless