beth

I no longer use it and was never addicted, but I do know of people who use pot and other drugs to treat themselves. I had no choice, I had to use what ever mean necessary to survive. There are many drug users that have other options. But there are others who use solely to self medicate(even if it is unwise), that could be considered immoral. Right?



Now let's add children into your original picture, I know many parents who profess to smoking pot in front of their kids. I have witnessed parents drink themselves into a drunken stupor in front of their children. My step-sister told me of her friends using coke, crank, acid, and meth in front of their kids. I wonder how moral people would consider this.

Carrie

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that smoking pot can even be a good thing.

Maybe it's just me, but when I do it, good things often result.
I start thinking about myself and my life, and I see the motivations behind my actions more clearly. I see how I need to improve, and the next day, I try to work on it. For example, one day when I got high, I realized that I had been mad at someone and that's why I hadn't been talking to her. So the next day I wrote her a letter and apologized. I also have realized that I don't like people enough, and I need to be more accepting. I've had a lot of good ideas while stoned. And pot just makes me feel nicer. I become more compassionate and talkative.

Alcohol can also be a good thing. Yesterday I was really mad, for no good reason, and I couldn't get out of my bad mood. So my husband and I went out for lunch and I had a beer and a long island iced tea, and I felt a whole lot better. I felt calm again, and happier, and nicer. And therefore my husband was also a lot happier. I had been making his day miserable before that.

Now of course there can be bad things associated with marijuana and alcohol too, so I need to be cautious. I don't do certain things. I don't drink and drive. I've learned not to drink or smoke pot too much, or too often. And I don't smoke pot or drink while I'm working, or while I have any responsibility to take care of.

Many positive things have come from drinking and smoking pot occasionally, for me at least. If it weren't positive, I wouldn't be doing it. So the way I handle it is moral. If it's negative for someone else, they shouldn't be doing it, because continuing to do something that causes harm would be wrong.

beth

That the pills I took were legal and prescribed. The were treatment for migrane and cluster headaches. Since during that that time I had a headache nearly 24-7, I was well within my right to take them. But I needed them more to feel better emotionally than physically. So was that moral?

Farren

Fatherphil,

if I understand your reasoning correctly, it is morally wrong to intentionally place yourself in a position where your ability to help others is temporarily comprimised, and you have no necessity to do so.

If this is the case, is taking a holiday and deliberately avoiding contact with people who might need your help immoral (switching off your cell etc)? Note, people have not "opted out of the greater society" when they take a holiday.

Would you insist that it is immoral to take a drive in the countryside on a weekend and switch off your phone? Even if you have no commitments to anyone (marriage, children et al)?

Is it wrong, perhaps, to take your dog for a long walk without any means of contacting you? Are you arguing that we are beholden to make ourselves available to all and sundry at every moment of our lives that we are not forced by the absolute necessity to do otherwise?

This strikes me as absurd

Thalia

I think that I was a happier person when I smoked pot in college. I am a high anxiety person, and the prescription pills they give you for that blunt your emotions, make you apathetic and dissolve your creativity. No doubt there are other things I could do to reduce stress like go into deep meditation, etc. But that doesn't erase the fact that I found it more helpful a few times a week before bed than SSRI's.

Sarpedon

Bravo Farren!

Also fatherphil, I think you would be hard pressed to "prove" that drug use harms society. Often, drug use is a symptom of a problem, not a problem in and of itself. It is like blondegoddess's contention: for her, the drug use was a symptom of her unhappiness, not the cause of it. You may cite the effects of opium on China, for example. I ask you, would drug use be as prevalent if the chinese were not enslaved by a foreign power, and watching their way of life crumble around them? I used to believe as you do. But then I became acquainted with a number of intellegent, productive, and enlightened "members of society" who occasionally smoke and use other drugs. If one is in control of oneself, drugs will not destroy him. If one is not in control of himself, he will come to grief with or without drugs. You are taking the standard government (evangelical christian) view that drugs are a priori evil, and a cause to evil in themselves. I suggest that you read an excellent book out there called "Aint no body's business if you do" (author forgotten, I'll look it up) which discusses drug use, as well as other moralistic laws that this country (USA) has. Its quite enlightening.

Jackalope

So let's talk about those of us who need drugs to be able to be functioning members of society. Until very recently, I absolutely *had* to take a painkiller in the morning when I first woke up. Not only could I not move around without blinding pain, but I couldn't focus on anything because the pain was so bad. My husband told me he could tell the moment that the painkiller kicked in, because suddenly I was alert and coherent instead of huddled up in pain. Now how is it possibly immoral for me to take an opiate painkiller when it enhances my ability to function in society? My reaction times actually got better on the drug, simply because I was actually able to notice things going on in the outside world.

Let's face it, I'm not going to be all that much help to my neighbor anyway, as I'm a cripple. Best I can do is call the paramedics or police for them. I can't even administer CPR anymore. So if I take those evil drugs, I'm more likely to be alert and aware of what's going on next door. Or right in front of me, for that matter. Explain to me how this is immoral again?

FatherPhil, I've noticed that your posts seem to divide issues into black/white answers, when most things in the real world are the shades of grey between.

fatherphil

to restate the original post since we have been dragging pharmaceutical uses into the discussion.
my moral question hinges on the implied contract we have to society which places certain resposibilities on one another to do our best/bring our best to the deal.

the limb upon which we claim an improvement in ourselves through getting high is shaky at best and i feel there are better ways to overcome our inhibitions or social discomfort than using drugs.

i think there is more black and white in the world than one might think and the use of grey to justify our actions to me is just that, self-justification.

also, don't assume that i'm speaking from some platform. i ask these questions from a life of experience that may have encompassed more than you would expect.

fatherphil

this response applies to farren as well:


thalia, your neighbor is anyone you come across. think of the "good samaritan" story. the camper, climber, mommy, ect.. is still available to the society they interact within.

Sharif

Your first post in this thread should have read: "I think drug use is immoral and nobody can change my mind because I don't actually consider others arguments". That way nobody would have responded and wasted their time.