Freethought & Rationalism Archive

excreationist · 12-30-2002, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crocodile deathroll
At least I am glad to see at least that cloning never got a look in. In light of the recent news about the Raelian's "we have cloned a baby" claim.
They claim cloning is the key to eternal life. Hah!

I think their plan is to clone their bodies and then transfer their mind (personality/memories) into that younger version of themselves.

crocodile deathroll · 12-30-2002, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Buddrow_Wilson
The reason most of us are choosing choice one is because it is logically the most likely conclusion. There is absolutely no proof of outrageous claims to the otherwise, no matter how much fun it is to contemplate them.

huh? There is no implications of supernatural origins in the choice.

I phrased it in such a way that it makes life sound like a kind of a computer video game, which does have its attractions.
Question 2 is rather cold and hard but has the same meaning.

tronvillain · 12-30-2002, 11:56 PM

The problem with two is that it says "When you are dead you will forget that you were ever born in the first place" - it seems to imply that one will in some sense continue to exist after death since one must exist in order to forget. Since most of us take the position that we do not exist after death, we choose the first option.

Of course, now that I have noticed that I could have chosen more than one option, I will add that I might also have chosen "cryonics will save me" though I do not actually ahve much hope that it will.

The AntiChris · 12-31-2002, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by crocodile deathroll

Question 2 is rather cold and hard but has the same meaning.

You may have intended the two questions to have the same meaning but they most certainly don't.

Question 2 presupposes that some form of consciousness continues after death. If not, what is the "you" that "forgets"?

Chris

crocodile deathroll · 12-31-2002, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tronvillain
The problem with two is that it says "When you are dead you will forget that you were ever born in the first place" - it seems to imply that one will in some sense continue to exist after death since one must exist in order to forget. Since most of us take the position that we do not exist after death, we choose the first option.

Of course, now that I have noticed that I could have chosen more than one option, I will add that I might also have chosen "cryonics will save me" though I do not actually ahve much hope that it will.

What is going to whisper in your dead brain that you have already lived your life?

crocodile deathroll · 12-31-2002, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The AntiChris
You may have intended the two questions to have the same meaning but they most certainly don't.

Question 2 presupposes that some form of consciousness continues after death. If not, what is the "you" that "forgets"?

Chris

The "you" forgets your language.
The "you" forgets your gender.
The "you" forgets your philosophy
The "you" forgets every episode that you have ever lived.
The "you" forgets how to ride a bike.
The "you" forgets your mother's face.
The "you" forgets your the context of space and time you lived in.
The "you" forgets that you have ever lived in the first place.

And the hard fact is, is that it is all true.

The AntiChris · 12-31-2002, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by crocodile deathroll
The "you" forgets your language.
The "you" forgets your gender.
The "you" forgets your philosophy
The "you" forgets every episode that you have ever lived.
The "you" forgets how to ride a bike.
The "you" forgets your mother's face.
The "you" forgets your the context of space and time you lived in.
The "you" forgets that you have ever lived in the first place.

And the hard fact is, is that it is all true.

Well, if you insist on misusing the word "forget" you can probably create any "hard fact" you want.

Chris

crocodile deathroll · 12-31-2002, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The AntiChris
Well, if you insist on misusing the word "forget" you can probably create any "hard fact" you want.

Chris

another word: "Oblivion" even your existing life goes into oblivion

Ab_Normal · 12-31-2002, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by crocodile deathroll
I phrased it (Question 1) in such a way that it makes life sound like a kind of a computer video game, which does have its attractions.
Question 2 is rather cold and hard but has the same meaning.

(text in parentheses added by me)

And I thought you were quoting Aliens in Question 1. "Game over, dude! Game over!"

I think when the body dies, the mind ceases.

I'm another who does not read 1 and 2 as the same question at all. To me, "forgetting" implies a continued existence of a thinking entity after the death of the body.

crocodile deathroll · 12-31-2002, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ab_Normal
(text in parentheses added by me)

And I thought you were quoting Aliens in Question 1. "Game over, dude! Game over!"

I think when the body dies, the mind ceases.

I'm another who does not read 1 and 2 as the same question at all. To me, "forgetting" implies a continued existence of a thinking entity after the death of the body.

Why wouldn't both question 1 and 2 be right, because the mind is really just all the some of all your cognition and memories?

View Poll Results: The "afterlife" poll
When you are dead, that's it. Game over.	63	76.83%
When you are dead you will forget that you were ever born in the first place	13	15.85%
Reincarnation, because I can remember my past lives.	1	1.22%
You go to Heaven or Hell or where ever God sends you.	4	4.88%
You continue to exist in a parallel universe	4	4.88%
You exist on Earth in some ghostly spirit realm.	1	1.22%
Cryonics will save me	3	3.66%
Cloning will save me	0	0%
I am an agnostic on this topic	12	14.63%
I never give it much thought.	5	6.10%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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12-30-2002, 11:56 PM	#43
tronvillain Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 5,658	The problem with two is that it says "When you are dead you will forget that you were ever born in the first place" - it seems to imply that one will in some sense continue to exist after death since one must exist in order to forget. Since most of us take the position that we do not exist after death, we choose the first option. Of course, now that I have noticed that I could have chosen more than one option, I will add that I might also have chosen "cryonics will save me" though I do not actually ahve much hope that it will.

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