Freethought & Rationalism Archive

HRG · 04-06-2003, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Angrillori
Heh. This reminds me of a talk I had with a Christian buddy of mine. (Thankfully he's now seen the light and learned to think a bit.)

We were discussing god's peculiar brand of justice. It centered around why god's brand of justice seemed so....unjust.

I'm still, in fact, looking for a definition of justice that includes:

1) Punishments that clearly don't fit the (Clearly god knows the concept of punishment fitting the crime--an eye for an eye--and such, but why then is simply being born to the wrong ancestor, Adam, deserving of an infininte torturous punishment?)

2) Inequal protection under law. (Does everyone get an equal shot at Jesus? You cannot with a straight face tell me yes. Geez, even in our pathetic human justice attempts we try to provide equal protection under the law--if you cannot afford a lawyer one will be...)

3) Ability to punish one for another's sins. (This one's partially for Jesus' sake in fact. How can it be just for him to suffer for what we did? Can god's 'perfectly' just nature change when he wants it to? If so, why not change it all the time and not need that whole Jesus thing to start with? Also, I haven't been able to twist my mind around the justice of us being punished for the sin of Adam via that whole death thing. I guess everyone gets hit with the injustice stick.)

4) Bribery and arbitrary exemption from punishment. ('Jesus is Lord' gets me out of punishments? Sheesh, If I stroke your ego and be your servant, you'll let me skip out of the punishment I deserve?)

5) Laws which do not apply to the lawmaker. (Murder, human sacrifice, fits of rage, all doom us, but don't seem to send the big guy to hell--unless that's where he's been these last coupla thousand years eh?)

6) Violation of the principle that no one may be a judge in his own cause. Sins are supposed to be offenses against God, yet he judges and punishes them.

Quote:

No, god is not just. Unless you can show me a definition of justice that includes these five at least, he cannot be.

P.S.
And don't try to tell me that God somehow has his own standard of justice, because then it's entirely arbitrary to him. Rather than being injust then, he is just a jerk. He defined justice for himself in a manner which sends people to hell when he could have as easily defined justice to send everyone to heaven in every case no matter what!

If you're going to arbitrarily pick a definition of justice, why pick a crappy one eh god?

I couldn't agree more.

Regards,
HRG.

Bumble Bee Tuna · 04-07-2003, 11:26 AM

Nobody cares about my topic...

-B

Kimpatsu · 04-07-2003, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
If He didn't love us or care what happens, He wouldn't have come to earth and died by our hands to pay the price of the punishment we brought to ourselves.

And your evidence that he did this is...?

Rousseau_CHN · 04-08-2003, 04:59 AM

Does God Make Logical Fallacies?

God is "logical fallacy".

Lemme break down the basic laws of logic.

The identity
Logic: A=A
Fallacy: God is the father. God is the son. God is the Holy Spirit.

The Either OR
Logic: Either A = B or A!=B (for C++ programmer)
Fallacy: God is here and God is also there.
Another: God is in the present and God is also in past.

The "if a=b then b=a"
Logic: if a=b then b=a
Fallacy: God can kill people, but you can't

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04-07-2003, 11:26 AM	#22
Bumble Bee Tuna Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Middletown, CT Posts: 7,333	Nobody cares about my topic... -B

04-08-2003, 04:59 AM	#24
Rousseau_CHN Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Nowhere Land Posts: 441	Does God Make Logical Fallacies? God is "logical fallacy". Lemme break down the basic laws of logic. The identity Logic: A=A Fallacy: God is the father. God is the son. God is the Holy Spirit. The Either OR Logic: Either A = B or A!=B (for C++ programmer) Fallacy: God is here and God is also there. Another: God is in the present and God is also in past. The "if a=b then b=a" Logic: if a=b then b=a Fallacy: God can kill people, but you can't

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