Freethought & Rationalism Archive

MOJO-JOJO · 10-09-2002, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sciteach:
Evolution is not a fact,its a theory.

Here is a brief response to that statement.
<a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html" target="_blank">Evolution: Fact and Theory</a>

Please read it and feel free to discuss.

lpetrich · 10-09-2002, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sciteach:
The laws of physics break down during the first microseconds of the Big Bang. Are you implying that mean the beginning of the Universe is unscientific too??

I think that there is a misstatement somewhere. What happens is that certain approximations break down -- approximations that are a part of some well-known physical theories.

Thus, General Relativity is expected to break down close to the Planck time, when quantum-gravity effects will become important.

It's something like taking a film of an explosion and extrapolating back to the point where the gaseous-fireball approximation breaks down -- where its density is a typical condensed-material density.

10-09-2002, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Sciteach: Why does the 'West' have almost all the best scientists??

(I assume this is meant to imply that xianity helped!)

I would suggest that it had a hell of a lot to do with the methods of thought of the ancient Greeks. Perhaps we should all start worshipping Zeus, Apollo, Hera, Artemis, Aphrodite, etc.

Just because you are American, please don't run away with the idea that "the West" => xian. It certainly isn't so where I come from.

Neruda · 10-09-2002, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sciteach:
Boy, did I say that all non-christians dont currently have a work ethic?

You said that Christianity gave us the work ethic, which to me says exactly that.

Quote:

Show me where in the bible that slavery is said to be a good thing?

Exodus 21:2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.

Exodus 22:3 If the sun be risen upon him, there shall be blood shed for him; for he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.

Ephesians 6:5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ...

1 Timothy 6:5 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.

1 Peter 2:18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

I'm sure there's more, for instance I recall Noah making one of his sons a "servant of servants" for hiding Noah's nakedness when he was drunk.

Quote:

Where's the evidence that Xians started slavery?

who said that?

Quote:

SomeXians owned slaves in the South. SO what, all landowners did--economic pressure required it, and besides, who said Xians were perfect? You never read that from my pen.

no, I'm sure they could have paid for their labor, but they wanted to be richer. it was the American way!

Anyway, I would be suprised to learn that many of the slave owners in the south were not Xian. That area isn't called the bible belt for nuthin', you know.

Neruda · 10-09-2002, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sciteach:
Evolution is not a fact,its a theory.

hey sciteach, guess what? There ARE no facts in science, instead everything is a theory! Everything must be capable of being disproven when it comes to science or else it isn't science! Therefore Theories don't become facts in time, they stay theories forever unless disproven, improved, or replaced with a superior theory. But evolution will never be disproven, just like the theory of a round earth. or the theory that the earth revolves around the sun.

Seriously Paul, go find another job.

trunks2k · 10-09-2002, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sciteach:
You willbe relieved to hear that I am not twisting there minds--we just learn the facts. Evolution is not a fact,its a theory.(emphasis added)

Wow. You haven't read ONE thing anybody in this thread has read, have you? I agree with everyone else that has said that you shouldn't be teaching a biology course. In fact with a statement like that it shows your ignorance of what a theory is and you shouldn't even be teaching ANY science class.

lpetrich · 10-09-2002, 02:41 PM

sciteach:
yeah, you're right on there pal--they only gave us hospitals

Like the temples of Asklepios in the Greco-Roman world? They have testimonials from "cured" patients on their walls; where are such carved testimonies from those allegedly cured by Jesus Christ?

And let us not forget that the Hippocratic Oath features Hellenic Paganism and not Christianity. So does one have to worship Apollo and Asklepios in order to be a good doctor?

And how successful has exorcism been in comparison to modern medicine? Yes, Jesus Christ was described as being an exorcist.

education

Institutes of higher learning are older than Christianity. Plato founded one called the Akademeia; guess where the word "academy" comes from.

work ethic

However, Jesus Christ counseled against that, saying that God will feed you the way he feeds the birds and wildflowers.

And were the Pyramids built by Egyptian peasants lazing around on the banks of the Nile?

love your neighbor (not just your jewish friend)

Jesus Christ went further, preaching that one ought to love one's enemies. Do you do that, O sciteach?

ended slavery twice.

However, plantation slavery was abundantly approved of by those who claimed that black people have the curse of Ham, whom Noah had cursed for being a Peeping Tom.

Noah had gotten drunk and had accidentally exposed himself. Ham got an eyeful and invited his brothers Shem and Japheth to have a good look at that sight. However, Shem and Japheth covered up Noah, being careful to look away. And when Noah realized what had happened, he cursed Ham.

Isn't that a great story to read to one's children? Is there a Veggie Tales version of that story?

Don't you know that it's unscientific to exalt and magnify the data against a movement, whilst ignoring the abundant data in its favor?

If you wish to point out the speck in someone else's eye, be sure to remove the log that is in your eye.

It's what all humanists do.

???

I wonder how many Saudi women are showing us there scientific expertise on web sites such as this?? Why does the 'West' have almost all the best scientists??

I would not brag too quickly, because plenty of good scientists come from elsewhere. Places like Japan and China and India and ...

But the reason that the "West" has so many good scientists is because that's the place that can most easily afford to finance them. There are cultural reasons, like relatively open and secular societies; that may explain why Saudi Arabia does not have a very big scientific community.

[ October 09, 2002: Message edited by: lpetrich ]

lpetrich · 10-09-2002, 02:49 PM

sciteach:
Boy, did I say that all non-christians dont currently have a work ethic?

That's what you had implied.

SomeXians owned slaves in the South. SO what, all landowners did--economic pressure required it, and besides, who said Xians were perfect?

So your coreligionists have a right to misbehave with absolute impunity? And what "economic pressures" were there?

lpetrich · 10-09-2002, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sciteach:

Whoever it was please dont go trying to find info on me by searching the web. Its rude.

Grow up.

Doubting Didymus · 10-09-2002, 02:55 PM

I have a genuine quustion for sciteach.

Using the same criteria by which you consider evolution a theory and not a fact, do you consider gravity a fact or a theory? Here I mean 'macro' gravity, which keeps the earth in orbit around the sun and can not be 'directly' observed. Theory or fact?

10-09-2002, 02:41 PM	#127
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	sciteach: yeah, you're right on there pal--they only gave us hospitals Like the temples of Asklepios in the Greco-Roman world? They have testimonials from "cured" patients on their walls; where are such carved testimonies from those allegedly cured by Jesus Christ? And let us not forget that the Hippocratic Oath features Hellenic Paganism and not Christianity. So does one have to worship Apollo and Asklepios in order to be a good doctor? And how successful has exorcism been in comparison to modern medicine? Yes, Jesus Christ was described as being an exorcist. education Institutes of higher learning are older than Christianity. Plato founded one called the Akademeia; guess where the word "academy" comes from. work ethic However, Jesus Christ counseled against that, saying that God will feed you the way he feeds the birds and wildflowers. And were the Pyramids built by Egyptian peasants lazing around on the banks of the Nile? love your neighbor (not just your jewish friend) Jesus Christ went further, preaching that one ought to love one's enemies. Do you do that, O sciteach? ended slavery twice. However, plantation slavery was abundantly approved of by those who claimed that black people have the curse of Ham, whom Noah had cursed for being a Peeping Tom. Noah had gotten drunk and had accidentally exposed himself. Ham got an eyeful and invited his brothers Shem and Japheth to have a good look at that sight. However, Shem and Japheth covered up Noah, being careful to look away. And when Noah realized what had happened, he cursed Ham. Isn't that a great story to read to one's children? Is there a Veggie Tales version of that story? Don't you know that it's unscientific to exalt and magnify the data against a movement, whilst ignoring the abundant data in its favor? If you wish to point out the speck in someone else's eye, be sure to remove the log that is in your eye. It's what all humanists do. ??? I wonder how many Saudi women are showing us there scientific expertise on web sites such as this?? Why does the 'West' have almost all the best scientists?? I would not brag too quickly, because plenty of good scientists come from elsewhere. Places like Japan and China and India and ... But the reason that the "West" has so many good scientists is because that's the place that can most easily afford to finance them. There are cultural reasons, like relatively open and secular societies; that may explain why Saudi Arabia does not have a very big scientific community. [ October 09, 2002: Message edited by: lpetrich ]</p>

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10-09-2002, 02:49 PM	#128
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	sciteach: Boy, did I say that all non-christians dont currently have a work ethic? That's what you had implied. SomeXians owned slaves in the South. SO what, all landowners did--economic pressure required it, and besides, who said Xians were perfect? So your coreligionists have a right to misbehave with absolute impunity? And what "economic pressures" were there?

10-09-2002, 02:55 PM	#130
Doubting Didymus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: East Coast. Australia. Posts: 5,455	I have a genuine quustion for sciteach. Using the same criteria by which you consider evolution a theory and not a fact, do you consider gravity a fact or a theory? Here I mean 'macro' gravity, which keeps the earth in orbit around the sun and can not be 'directly' observed. Theory or fact?

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