Freethought & Rationalism Archive

One Way · 06-16-2003, 09:48 AM

Dear ElCid

When you are saved we use a term called "regeneration". This happens when you believe in Christ's death to forgive your sins, you know that you do not have anything in you that looks good to God, you admit that you are a sinner. At that very moment the Holy Sprit is poured out in your life.
From that moment on you want nothing more then to please God (I know from experiance) you now hate,actually hate anything that goes against what His word says. The "christian" that can still go out and rob a bank or kill somebody, was obviously never a Christian. They have no idea who God is and don't really know why there saved. They neither understand the Bible and have no concept of regeneration, they have never been saved.

The truly saved sinner wants to pray because He can talk to God. He wants to go to church because he wants to be with fellow believers. He is now a child of God, He can be assured of a plce in heaven.

" there is no differerence, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" In God's eyes the lifetime seriel killer and the all around family man are still sinners, they still need to be saved. If you have a Bible at home I would suggest reading the Romans. If not, visit www.crosswalk.com.

My prayers will be with you
Ben

ManM · 06-16-2003, 09:56 AM

St. Justin the Philosopher addressed how Christians used to look at responsibility in his first apology:

"And more than all other men are we your helpers and allies in promoting peace, seeing that we hold this view, that it is alike impossible for the wicked, the covetous, the conspirator, and for the virtuous, to escape the notice of God, and that each man goes to everlasting punishment or salvation according to the value of his actions. For if all men knew this, no one would choose wickedness even for a little, knowing that he goes to the everlasting punishment of fire; but would by all means restrain himself, and adorn himself with virtue, that he might obtain the good gifts of God, and escape the punishments."

emotional · 06-16-2003, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by One Way
In God's eyes the lifetime seriel killer and the all around family man are still sinners, they still need to be saved.

And the lifetime serial killer can get to heaven if he accepts Jesus on his deathbed, and the loving family man, if he doesn't, goes to eternal hell. So there go both God's mercy and His justice into the trash.

CHRISTANITY IS SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

emotional · 06-16-2003, 10:06 AM

There is One Way to Heaven, and that is: acts of kindness towards one another. Your belief in Jesus will not get you to Heaven. Your affirmation of God's existence will not get you to Heaven. Your belief in the literal truth of the Bible will not get you to Heaven. Your deathbed "repentance" will not get you to heaven. Only acts of love towards other people will get you to Heaven. There is no other Way. All our theologies, our beliefs, our creeds and our apologetics are like filthy rags in God's eyes.

One Way · 06-16-2003, 10:14 AM

There goes God's mercy and justice. What are you talking about. The sinner (that is everyone) that rejects God's only son (think about it, you have just rejected His Son)goes to hell, that is justice, God made a way, He gave His word, we rejected it, God says that deserves Hell. As for His mercy? It still stands, believe in His Son, and you will recieve it! God Has been merciful, He has sent His son, you either accpet it or reject it. God can only look at those washed with Christ's blood.

Also, unfortunatly your salvation by good works, unfortunatly Has no basis. It is certainly not taught in the Bible! "Salvation is by grace alone, not by works so that no one may boast."

You have also misquoted a verse in Isaiah which states "all our righteousness is asfilthy rags"
Ben

emotional · 06-16-2003, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by One Way
The sinner (that is everyone) that rejects God's only son (think about it, you have just rejected His Son)goes to hell, that is justice,

No, that isn't justice. Case closed.

Quote:

God made a way, He gave His word, we rejected it, God says that deserves Hell.

I believe God, the All-Loving, All-Holy Father, does not let people burn in a torture chamber for eternity. If you want to believe that blasphemy, so be it.

Quote:

As for His mercy? It still stands, believe in His Son, and you will recieve it! God Has been merciful, He has sent His son, you either accpet it or reject it. God can only look at those washed with Christ's blood.

A man has sinned all his life, and on his deathbed he accepts Jesus. Does he go to heaven? Are his sins cleansed? By no means! He is still filthy with sins. He cannot be admitted to heaven.

Quote:

Also, unfortunatly your salvation by good works, unfortunatly Has no basis. It is certainly not taught in the Bible! "Salvation is by grace alone, not by works so that no one may boast."

Then the Bible is lying.

Quote:

You have also misquoted a verse in Isaiah which states "all our righteousness is asfilthy rags"
Ben

It was on purpose, and it still stands: all our theologies, beliefs, creeds and apologetics are like filthy rags in God's eyes. Only our acts of kindness count in God's eyes. Jesus is not the way to Heaven. When you die and stand in front of God, undergoing the Life Review, you will see that your faith in Jesus counts for nothing. You may scoff now, but you WILL believe when you get there!

ManM · 06-16-2003, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by emotional
I believe God, the All-Loving, All-Holy Father, does not let people burn in a torture chamber for eternity. If you want to believe that blasphemy, so be it.

What about those who do not want eternal life? I've seen it mentioned on II several times that people would be bored to tears in heaven. For those folks, any eternity is a torture chamber. So does God blink them out of existence? How would that make other people (perhaps relatives) feel? Would they be happy knowing they have eternally lost a loved one? Do you see a no-win situation emerging here?

emotional · 06-16-2003, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ManM
What about those who do not want eternal life? I've seen it mentioned on II several times that people would be bored to tears in heaven. For those folks, any eternity is a torture chamber.

The afterlife isn't what the Abrahamic religions say it is. It's a life of further development and evolution, much like this one, only with a different awareness of things.

Quote:

So does God blink them out of existence? How would that make other people (perhaps relatives) feel? Would they be happy knowing they have eternally lost a loved one? Do you see a no-win situation emerging here?

No-one is blinked out of existence. All conscious animals, including humans, keep on living in the astral planes. Such is the law that God has decreed from the beginning of the creation (15 billion years ago).

Mageth · 06-16-2003, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by One Way
There goes God's mercy and justice. What are you talking about. The sinner (that is everyone) that rejects God's only son (think about it, you have just rejected His Son)goes to hell, that is justice,

Exactly how is that "justice" and or "mercy"?

God made a way, He gave His word, we rejected it, God says that deserves Hell.

So then it's not justice, it's just what god says...

As for His mercy? It still stands, believe in His Son, and you will recieve it! God Has been merciful, He has sent His son, you either accpet it or reject it. God can only look at those washed with Christ's blood.

Yuck. And people still believe in such a primitive, blood-sacrifice religion? Justice is that god MUST have blood for sin! To be saved, you MUST be covered in the blood of an innocent!

Yet I'm sure you think tossing a virgin into a volcano to appease the fire gods is only a primitive superstition.

Also, unfortunatly your salvation by good works, unfortunatly Has no basis. It is certainly not taught in the Bible!

You're right; god's actions as portrayed in the bible, and the actions of his people in the name of god, certainly don't teach good works.

ManM · 06-16-2003, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by emotional

The afterlife isn't what the Abrahamic religions say it is. It's a life of further development and evolution, much like this one, only with a different awareness of things.

That sounds boring to me.

06-16-2003, 09:48 AM	#11
One Way Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Keene Posts: 7	It's called "regeneration!" Dear ElCid When you are saved we use a term called "regeneration". This happens when you believe in Christ's death to forgive your sins, you know that you do not have anything in you that looks good to God, you admit that you are a sinner. At that very moment the Holy Sprit is poured out in your life. From that moment on you want nothing more then to please God (I know from experiance) you now hate,actually hate anything that goes against what His word says. The "christian" that can still go out and rob a bank or kill somebody, was obviously never a Christian. They have no idea who God is and don't really know why there saved. They neither understand the Bible and have no concept of regeneration, they have never been saved. The truly saved sinner wants to pray because He can talk to God. He wants to go to church because he wants to be with fellow believers. He is now a child of God, He can be assured of a plce in heaven. " there is no differerence, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" In God's eyes the lifetime seriel killer and the all around family man are still sinners, they still need to be saved. If you have a Bible at home I would suggest reading the Romans. If not, visit www.crosswalk.com. My prayers will be with you Ben

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06-16-2003, 09:56 AM	#12
ManM Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: NW Florida, USA Posts: 1,279	St. Justin the Philosopher addressed how Christians used to look at responsibility in his first apology: "And more than all other men are we your helpers and allies in promoting peace, seeing that we hold this view, that it is alike impossible for the wicked, the covetous, the conspirator, and for the virtuous, to escape the notice of God, and that each man goes to everlasting punishment or salvation according to the value of his actions. For if all men knew this, no one would choose wickedness even for a little, knowing that he goes to the everlasting punishment of fire; but would by all means restrain himself, and adorn himself with virtue, that he might obtain the good gifts of God, and escape the punishments."

06-16-2003, 10:06 AM	#14
emotional Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Boxing ring of HaShem, Jesus and Allah Posts: 1,945	There is One Way to Heaven, and that is: acts of kindness towards one another. Your belief in Jesus will not get you to Heaven. Your affirmation of God's existence will not get you to Heaven. Your belief in the literal truth of the Bible will not get you to Heaven. Your deathbed "repentance" will not get you to heaven. Only acts of love towards other people will get you to Heaven. There is no other Way. All our theologies, our beliefs, our creeds and our apologetics are like filthy rags in God's eyes.

06-16-2003, 10:14 AM	#15
One Way Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Keene Posts: 7	There goes God's mercy and justice. What are you talking about. The sinner (that is everyone) that rejects God's only son (think about it, you have just rejected His Son)goes to hell, that is justice, God made a way, He gave His word, we rejected it, God says that deserves Hell. As for His mercy? It still stands, believe in His Son, and you will recieve it! God Has been merciful, He has sent His son, you either accpet it or reject it. God can only look at those washed with Christ's blood. Also, unfortunatly your salvation by good works, unfortunatly Has no basis. It is certainly not taught in the Bible! "Salvation is by grace alone, not by works so that no one may boast." You have also misquoted a verse in Isaiah which states "all our righteousness is asfilthy rags" Ben

06-16-2003, 10:43 AM	#19
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Originally posted by One Way There goes God's mercy and justice. What are you talking about. The sinner (that is everyone) that rejects God's only son (think about it, you have just rejected His Son)goes to hell, that is justice, Exactly how is that "justice" and or "mercy"? God made a way, He gave His word, we rejected it, God says that deserves Hell. So then it's not justice, it's just what god says... As for His mercy? It still stands, believe in His Son, and you will recieve it! God Has been merciful, He has sent His son, you either accpet it or reject it. God can only look at those washed with Christ's blood. Yuck. And people still believe in such a primitive, blood-sacrifice religion? Justice is that god MUST have blood for sin! To be saved, you MUST be covered in the blood of an innocent! Yet I'm sure you think tossing a virgin into a volcano to appease the fire gods is only a primitive superstition. Also, unfortunatly your salvation by good works, unfortunatly Has no basis. It is certainly not taught in the Bible! You're right; god's actions as portrayed in the bible, and the actions of his people in the name of god, certainly don't teach good works.

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