yguy

The fact that a person can know they've just done something they shouldn't have without anyone telling them so, and independent of social conditioning. This is evidence of a higher source of knowledge within us.

Hawkingfan

You'd have to prove that guilt is independent of social conditioning first. And if that were the case, then there would be no reason for any of gods laws. And what makes knowing right from wrong imply a "higher" source? Not everyone agrees on right and wrong. Your "higher source" probably thinks that homosexuality is wrong. My "higher source" says it is just fine. You would think that abortion is wrong and if you did it, you would know you've done something you shouldn't, whereas if I did it, I would have no such feeling.

And are you going to address the fact that many people find overwhelming evidence (in their eyes) of the existence of Allah, yet you don't believe in him. Why?

Tabula_rasa

You mean like, oh I don't know, say how a bird 'just knows where to build the right nest to attract a good mate?' Sounds like you've just described instincts.

Wanna try again?

Tabula_rasa

yguy

I have my doubts about whether I can provide support sufficient for you to believe it.

What is this, the "Eat s***, 10 billion flies can't be wrong" defense?

Why don't thumpers see how dumb it is to believe the Bible is the Word o'God just because a bunch of clerics canonized it 1700 years ago?

My guess would be that they've been indocrinated to think that way, and just can't think outside that paradigm.

It's not the numerical value, it's the fact that the value is assigned at all - based, I presume, on formulae which purport to determine their worth. Do researchers spend time on a theory deemed to have a probability of .1% when a competing theory has a probability of 80%? I don't know it for a fact, but I would guess not.

It isn't, in my mind. The objective truth of a theory has nothing to do with the "probability" that it is true.

If his theory said that the earth would revolve around the sun forever, you are correct, of course.

Hawkingfan

And I have my doubts about whether a muslim can provide sufficient evidence for you to believe in Islam and the one true god, Allah.

yguy

I did no such thing. I merely acknowledged, for the sake of communication, that HF sees God as an unproven theory.

Mageth

The fact that a person can know they've just done something they shouldn't have without anyone telling them so, and independent of social conditioning. This is evidence of a higher source of knowledge within us.

My cat likes to dash in the bathroom in front of me, jump on the toilet and then the counter, where she complains until I turn the water on slightly so she can get a drink from the faucet.

One night when she did this, the lights were out in the bathroom. and she didn't check to see if the toilet lid was down.

Believe me, she knew she'd done something she shouldn't have without me telling her.

yguy

Nope. Instincts are genetically ingrained and/or environmentally conditioned. Humans can rise above either. Animals cannot.

Mageth

Nope. Instincts are genetically ingrained and/or environmentally conditioned. Humans can rise above either. Animals cannot.

Sure they can. My cat, after she (rapidly) rose out of the toilet bowl, curbed her instinct to jump on the toilet without checking. Now she either carefully checks or jumps straight to the counter.

yguy

It isn't always. Social guilt is phony guilt, evidence of having made someone else our God. I'm not talking about that.

Indeed, not everyone agrees that pedophilia is wrong. Does the lack of a unanimous consensus cast doubt on it's wrongness?

I don't believe in the God most Christians believe in either.