Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Kosh · 05-11-2003, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by quartodeciman
It's fun!

Hardly, since many religions force their adherants to refrain from many activities which are quite enjoyable.

JCS · 05-11-2003, 10:50 AM

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Why is there a need to believe in God?

I must have missed that memo, since I am unaware of such a need.

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How does it improve one's life?

It sharpens ones ability to intertwine one's perceived reality with one's fantasy, but it has yet to demonstrate an improvement.

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What benefits are there?

Plenty of friends to share your delusions with, and a built in cause for most of your prejudices.

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Why is it 'better' than not believing?

Because it allows one to navigate those built in prejudices.

lpetrich · 05-11-2003, 12:05 PM

First question: which god?

Next question: if they all worship the same god, then why do they say very different things?

Most people believe in the religion that is in their social environment -- and that is very geography-dependent.

AJ113 · 05-11-2003, 05:07 PM

I think that any need to believe in god(s) has been created by constant indoctrination, usually by parents.

Children that are raised without religious indoctrination do not have a need to believe in god.

orac · 05-11-2003, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ojuice5001
The main reason belief in gods is so tenaciously held is simply that it's true. Theists look at the world and see the activity of god(s); therefore, it takes a lot to convince them that the world really isn't that way. It's no different from the fact that most atheists at most times look at the world and see things as if they happen without the guidance of the gods. No other explanation is necessary.

So a theist seeing the "evidence" for gods proves the existance of gods, and atheists seeing no evidence for gods proves the non existance of gods?

Your logic needs some work

Actually, I just had a thought. Do you live in a world where whatever a person believes is automatically "true" for that person? That's not an unheard of proposition, but for it to work you first have to divest the word "true" from any actual meaning. You also have to give up the concept of talking to other people, because in a world where all words have every possible meaning at the same time is not a world in which you can use words to communicate.

Quote:

Originally posted by Ojuice5001
And I disagree that religion is that good of a wish fulfillment. Yes, the gods often look out for their followers, but it's important to see that there's always some force that opposes your god. Yahweh's will, Jupiter's will, Postverta's will, are all sometimes thwarted, and one's own case could always be one of those cases. Not only that, but gods are notoriously capricious. You never know when they'll decide you haven't pleased them enough, and cast you down in some way.

If you have a God on your side, then you need an explanation for why bad things happen to good people. Satan (whatever you call him) and "we didn't please God - burn the heretics!" do well for that. "I'm special so I'm going to heaven" helps a lot of people, too.

If you could get rid of the religious need to burn or convert all heretics then religion wouldn't be such a big problem. If it wasn't for all the wasted lives I wouldn't be so bothered by people wanting their security blanket, either. But I guess not everyone really wants to do anything to make the world a better place when they can comfortably have a cup of tea with their friends and hope really really hard that their sky daddy will make everything all right.

Yes, I know "God will reward me if I'm good" can motivate some people to be good. If that's the best that the human race can offer, then it's past time we make way for a new species that can be decent without requiring threats and rewards.

Kevbo · 05-11-2003, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lpetrich
First question: which god?

Most people believe in the religion that is in their social environment -- and that is very geography-dependent.

This is probably one of the best arguments against a universal spiritual truth.

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05-11-2003, 12:05 PM	#13
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	First question: which god? Next question: if they all worship the same god, then why do they say very different things? Most people believe in the religion that is in their social environment -- and that is very geography-dependent.

05-11-2003, 05:07 PM	#14
AJ113 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Hull UK Posts: 854	I think that any need to believe in god(s) has been created by constant indoctrination, usually by parents. Children that are raised without religious indoctrination do not have a need to believe in god.

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