Defiant Heretic

Perhaps if less people decided not to come because nobody would be there, there would have been more people there. As it stands, we still managed to get a few thousand together, which is more than we've done before. Some people noticed, even if we didn't get as much media as I would have hoped.

(C-Span did cover the march)

Arrowman

Just stepping in to an emerging argument....

For me, of course, the whole "do I attend the March?" question was academic, but I did scan the various threads which discussed this question.

There were people who doubted the effectiveness of the March, for various reasons. I think some of those reasons, doubts and concerns were valid, and people who express them should not be harshly criticised. Their p.o.v. is valid.

There were others who felt very strongly about attending the March. I appreciate their p.o.v. although I do think some arguments were rather overblown (e.g. comparing the situation of atheists in 2002 to black Americans in the 60s).

(For the record, if I lived within 8 hours or so driving distance of the March I would have attended.)

We seem to be, in this thread, beginning another back-and-forth on these two points of view and frankly I think it's pointless. If the March does become an annual event, and it is shown to be a consistently positive, peaceful event (as I believe this year's was), and it is not hijacked by single-issue groups or extreme points of view, then it will grow and become more successful.

And yes, the growth will in large part be due to people who didn't attend the early Marches, and they will be disdained by the "originals" as latecomers and bandwagon jumpers who don't have the "cred" of the original Marchers, and so on and so forth. Such is the history of movements like this. So what. Leave it alone, guys - it's already old.

I just want to read about how this March went, and how people think it might be improved in future (apart from having more of the sit at home do nothing apathetic ones coming along )

fando

Well, if there were some kind of cross-nation bullet train I sure would have made it, and perhaps many others from teh West Coast.

dangin

OK, for once I can speak with authority about something. I mean I do that all the time, but this time I know what I am talking about.

I'm making a documentary of the march. I was the "official documentarian" for AA. When I met up with Ellen Johnson for the Press conference on Friday at the National Press Club, she introduced me to the executive staff and to security as Dan the documentarian. Then said "he gets access to everything, Everything". She said it twice.

I was in the speaker's tent, I was at the press conference, I was at the prebanquet, I privately interviewed half the speakers, three different state directors of AA, and several march attendees.

The march was and is beneficial.

The Atheist Political Action Committee that has been formed is building a war chest, and professional lobbyists will be at work in the capital working with and influencing legislators to view our issues favorably. Obviously this has had no effect yet, but if it becomes well funded it could be unbelievably effective.

Second, unity was the word of the day, and was specifically addressed by Ellen and many other speakers. We must find ways for all of our disparate groups to find common ground and move forward. The good will built between many groups will have positive effects in the future as these relationships continue to grow.

And finally the call to action was sent out. Look at the actions of all of us on these forums. If we spent half the time, hell if we spent 10% of the time working for political gains for atheists as we do arguing philosophy, arguing with xians, and arguing among ourselves here we would be making the world more like what we want it to be.

As a movement we are not out to ask for something, or to make friends with the xians. Ralph Reed and the christian coalition did not ask for the power they have earned, they did not try to make friends, they organized, raised money and took what they wanted in order to achieve their goals. That is the exact model that is being copied by our organizations. We shouldn't care about bad press, we should care about gaining clout. And not attending the march weakened that goal.

Walter_Mitty

In light of the Southern Baptist's recent election windfall, methinks the man makes a good point.

Rusting Car Bumper

<nevermind>

[ November 27, 2002: Message edited by: DigitalChicken ]</p>

Rusting Car Bumper

hahhaa! I didn't say because of me!

I thought that in general it might get negative press or be an anti-religious rally.

DC

Rusting Car Bumper

There are long threads elsewhere on these message boards (before the march) where some people including myself were skeptical of the rally organizers and skeptical of its overall effect.

I didn't see any need to repeat that information.

I don't have to justify what I do to do you. I see no positive result in turning this into a pissing match of what one guy did/does vs. what another guy does.

That being said, I prefer to concentrate on things like this:
<a href="http://www.infidels.org/wire/stories/tx_020916.html" target="_blank">Christian-Atheist dialog in Texas</a>

I was the atheist speaker at this event.

DC

Autonemesis

But twice you worded your comments such that it could be easily be misinterpreted that way. I was being a little disingenuous, yes, but I was also noting the "Freudian"(?) slip. Getting a laugh was part of it, too.

Which is critical of the participants, especially since you held this view prior to the event taking place. So I thought a little criticism in return was appropriate.

But actually, that the march was a successful and peaceful event is all the criticism you need to receive. I hope you'll show up at the next one.

Rusting Car Bumper

This misrepresents, IMO, the main reasons why many non-believers consciously avoided the march. The three main reasons are (1) that they didn't trust the organizers (2) they thought that negative press (possibly right befoe the election) would make things worse and not better and (3) that it would be too slanted to anti-religious sentiments.

There is a certain truth to that but some claim the March misses the target. I believe non-believers problems are not political at the root. They are caused by social attitudes and that political problems are only an after effect. There is a view that says that non-believer groups need to put more effort on changing the attitudes of everyday Americans as opposed to filing court cases and trying to elect atheist friendly candidates.

DC

[ November 27, 2002: Message edited by: DigitalChicken ]</p>