Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 01-24-2003, 05:29 PM

From the II Newswire:

Freethinkers Urged to Flood HUD with Protests During Public Comment Period

http://www.ffrf.org/action/index.php...ction_php.html

Quote:

The public is invited to submit comments on this proposed rule to the Office of the Rules Docket Clerk, Office of General Counsel, Room 10276, Department of Housing and Urban Development, 451 Seventh Street, SW, Washington DC 20410-0500.

Communications should refer to Docket No. FR-4782-P-01 and the title: "Participation in HUD Programs by Faith-Based Organizations; Providing for Equal Treatment of All HUD Program Participants." Faxes and emailed comments are not accepted.

Please write the HUD office as soon as possible. Letters go into the public record. (Letters to the editor are also urged.) . . .

gravitybow · 01-25-2003, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lisarea
They require government funds to go specifically for secular services, with NO government monies going to fund proselytizing, worship, etc.

That's so laughably transparent. If I agree to such a loophole and get the government to foot a percentage of my overhead in one area, I'm just freeing up more of my own funds to apply to proselytizing, worship, etc. The effect is the same as if the gov't had given directly to my cause.

Splat · 01-25-2003, 06:32 AM

I think we're getting this backwards. The goal isn't to have government funds used to build churches.

The goal is to force theists to hold church in their soup kitchens. *

So at the very least, the FBI initiative will force xians to be a tiny bit less hypocritical than they would be otherwise.

(* and if I understand correctly, lisarea is correct, to keep their god in the same box as the donated clothing!).

FairFiend · 01-26-2003, 02:49 PM

I found out about this backdoor funding of religion through the newswire too. I guess that I actually have to thank Bush for doing this because as a result I sent my first letter of protest ever to the government. I followed the advice of the FFRF and sent a letter to the HUD. I'm sick of doing nothing. A letter might not be much, and it might not change anything, but at least it's a message. Has anyone else written?

ELECTROGOD · 01-26-2003, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Oh come on. There's now way that 14% of Americans don't believe in the existence of God.

100% of them didn't believe in the existence of "god" when they were born. Since then most of them have been suckered by a lame story and now they want to sucker us out of our money to keep pushing their lame story.

Stephen Maturin · 01-27-2003, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lisarea
And I don't know much about HUD stuff, but is there some kind of minimum requirements for the length of time in which a facility will have to comply with this? I mean, can they get HUD funds to build a combination sacrificial altar/day care, and then abandon the day care at some point without repaying HUD?

Nope, there are no minimum time length requirements. The current regs prohibit HUD from giving money to primarily religious organizations except in certain narrowly prescribed circumstances. The proposed regs, which you can read straight from the Federal Register along with HUD's comments here, are entirely new. What you see is exactly what you get with the new regs (which actually affect eight separate HUD programs), including the absence of any time limit or payback requirement.

The language is squishy by design. The more ambiguous the regs, the greater the potential for raiding the federal treasury.

I kinda like the frog/boiling water thing, but it doesn't really fit here. The water is in fact at a full boil, but the administration is trying to bullshit the frog into believing that the water's really just lukewarm.

admice · 01-27-2003, 03:14 PM

Thanks Toto for the info. I will submit and forward to my friends. And thanks Stephen for the link. This board is a great resource for action items.

gsx1138 · 01-27-2003, 04:47 PM

I wonder how willing Bush would be to me opening a Mega-Wiccan/Pagan church using his funds? He has already said he does not view witchcraft or wicca as a true religion thus trying to deny any tax exempt status. Freedom of speech, life, and religion only go as far as you agree with a christian.

ELECTROGOD · 01-29-2003, 09:08 AM

Yeah, and the church of Satan ought to love getting a new building. Bush can't deny Satan's existance without denying his own "god's" existance.
So, is the Occupant of the White House going to be the one to determine what true religion is...or what the true religion is...his? How will he justify Allah if he doesn't believe Allah? If he doesn't believe in Allah and says Islam deserves to get our money then why not other religions.
He's so full of shit!

Jamie_L · 01-29-2003, 12:30 PM

Well, this should give atheists the opportunity to get the government to build us some Freethought Churches, as long as we also do some charitable work with the structures.

If we can't stop it, we darn sure ought to take advantage of it. When the religious right finds out the government is funding atheist organizations, we'll see how much they like their "faith-based" initiatives.

Jamie

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01-25-2003, 06:32 AM	#13
Splat Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hell, PA Posts: 599	I think we're getting this backwards. The goal isn't to have government funds used to build churches. The goal is to force theists to hold church in their soup kitchens. * So at the very least, the FBI initiative will force xians to be a tiny bit less hypocritical than they would be otherwise. (* and if I understand correctly, lisarea is correct, to keep their god in the same box as the donated clothing!).

01-26-2003, 02:49 PM	#14
FairFiend Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: East Lansing, MI Posts: 27	I found out about this backdoor funding of religion through the newswire too. I guess that I actually have to thank Bush for doing this because as a result I sent my first letter of protest ever to the government. I followed the advice of the FFRF and sent a letter to the HUD. I'm sick of doing nothing. A letter might not be much, and it might not change anything, but at least it's a message. Has anyone else written?

01-27-2003, 03:14 PM	#17
admice Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: S Cal Posts: 327	Thanks Toto for the info. I will submit and forward to my friends. And thanks Stephen for the link. This board is a great resource for action items.

01-27-2003, 04:47 PM	#18
gsx1138 Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Bremerton, Washington Posts: 379	I wonder how willing Bush would be to me opening a Mega-Wiccan/Pagan church using his funds? He has already said he does not view witchcraft or wicca as a true religion thus trying to deny any tax exempt status. Freedom of speech, life, and religion only go as far as you agree with a christian.

01-29-2003, 09:08 AM	#19
ELECTROGOD Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: GR, MI USA Posts: 4,009	Yeah, and the church of Satan ought to love getting a new building. Bush can't deny Satan's existance without denying his own "god's" existance. So, is the Occupant of the White House going to be the one to determine what true religion is...or what the true religion is...his? How will he justify Allah if he doesn't believe Allah? If he doesn't believe in Allah and says Islam deserves to get our money then why not other religions. He's so full of shit!

01-29-2003, 12:30 PM	#20
Jamie_L Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: U.S. Posts: 2,565	Well, this should give atheists the opportunity to get the government to build us some Freethought Churches, as long as we also do some charitable work with the structures. If we can't stop it, we darn sure ought to take advantage of it. When the religious right finds out the government is funding atheist organizations, we'll see how much they like their "faith-based" initiatives. Jamie

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