Freethought & Rationalism Archive

BigBlue2 · 03-01-2003, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto
The president referred to in that quote was Eisenhower. He got some bad advice.

Sorry, missed that bit. It sounds like something that Dubya would say, though

.

crazyfingers · 03-01-2003, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BigBlue2
Sorry, missed that bit. It sounds like something that Dubya would say, though .

I'm sure that he would say it.

Toto · 03-01-2003, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crazyfingers
I'm sure that he would say it.

Maybe not. The term "Almighty" is not one that W. uses. It is, in a way, a gentile euphemism that fits in with ceremonial Deism, as it doesn't identify any particular god, and might include the almighty forces of nature if that's how you want to interpret it.

W. is more likely to refer to the healing power of Jesus Christ in your life, but that more in front of friendly audiences. In official pronouncements, he usually manages to make at least a bow towards diversity.

crazyfingers · 03-01-2003, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto
[B]Maybe not. The term "Almighty" is not one that W. uses. It is, in a way, a gentile euphemism that fits in with ceremonial Deism, as it doesn't identify any particular god, and might include the almighty forces of nature if that's how you want to interpret it.

Really? Almighty has a very strong Christian connotation for me.

Toto · 03-01-2003, 07:33 PM

I guess I should look before I leap.

W. did say this here www.hooah4health.com/4You/091401Bushsermon.htm at a prayer service:

Quote:

On this national day of prayer and remembrance, we ask almighty God to watch over our nation and grant us patience and resolve in all that is to come.

But that was after saying

Quote:

Today, we feel what Franklin Roosevelt called, "the warm courage of national unity." This is a unity of every faith and every background.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0011116-3.html (proclaiming the national day of prayer)

Quote:

May Almighty God, who is our refuge and our strength in this time of trouble, watch over our homeland, protect us, and grant us patience, resolve, and wisdom in all that is to come.

http://www.dol.gov/_sec/media/speech...sit_to_DOL.htm

Quote:

There are many Americans on bended knee from all different religions, praying to an almighty God. We�re a nation united in our conviction that we must find those evildoers and bring them to justice.

But Osama bin Laden refers to the Almighty God (who guided those planes into the twin towers) much more often.

Grumpy · 03-02-2003, 11:16 AM

While driving around yesterday, I had another thought about O'Scannlain's dissent.

Quote:

The panel majority cannot credibly advance the notion that Newdow II is neutral with respect to belief versus non-belief; it affirmatively favors the latter to the former.

When are we going to do something about all those cars driving around without Jesus fish on the bumper? They affirmatively favor non-belief over Christianity. In order to make sure that license plates are neutral with respect to the question, every state should make sure that the ichthys symbol appears. Only in this way can the government ensure that it is not endorsing the religion of non-religion, and avoid the appearance of hostility toward Christianity.

joedad · 03-02-2003, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Toto:
The worst outcome: The Supreme Court takes the case and uses it as a vehicle to make new law, allowing a preference for religious belief over non-belief. Possibly even worse: The Supreme Court upholds it, and the religious right gets a Constitutional amendment passed allowing a preference of belief over non-belief.

Depends. Historically, such repressive stupidity has become ammunition for future generations.

joe

Stephen Maturin · 03-03-2003, 04:42 AM

Orrin froths at the mouth

It's a sad state of affairs when Jay $ekulow's response to a C-SS ruling is more temperate and measured than that of the Senate judiciary committee chairman.

Stephen Maturin · 03-03-2003, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Philosoft
The old non-sequitur/strawman 1-2 punch.

Yes, and when you consider the false dichotomy "reciting the Pledge isn't a religious act, it's a patriotic act", we've got ourselves an informal fallacy trifecta. Setting aside for a moment the patently silly notion that acknowledging the existence and sovereignty of Yahweh is something other than a "religious" act, the fact remains that "religious" and "patriotic" are not mutually exclusive ideas. The line between the two was never entirely distinct to begin with, and, thanks to the Bush administration, the terms "religious" and "patriotic" are damned near synonymous these days.

pug846 · 03-03-2003, 09:53 AM

I think the real misfortune here isn�t whether belief over non-belief is going to be favored. It�s the equivocation of God with religion; there are religions out there that don�t recognize any God and those that accept multiple gods. I really wish a member of a religion that didn�t recognize God would have filed the lawsuit. So, even if the courts should hold that you can favor belief over non-belief, I still think it would be a hard pill to swallow to favor monotheistic religions over non-monotheistic religions.

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03-03-2003, 04:42 AM	#28
Stephen Maturin Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Broomfield, Colorado, USA Posts: 1,295	Orrin froths at the mouth It's a sad state of affairs when Jay $ekulow's response to a C-SS ruling is more temperate and measured than that of the Senate judiciary committee chairman.

03-03-2003, 09:53 AM	#30
pug846 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1,587	I think the real misfortune here isn�t whether belief over non-belief is going to be favored. It�s the equivocation of God with religion; there are religions out there that don�t recognize any God and those that accept multiple gods. I really wish a member of a religion that didn�t recognize God would have filed the lawsuit. So, even if the courts should hold that you can favor belief over non-belief, I still think it would be a hard pill to swallow to favor monotheistic religions over non-monotheistic religions.

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