monkey mind

</strong>

A neutral cause would create a neutral effect.

</strong>

Well, rebirth accounts for it. The reason why we are even born is because we have karma from the past.

</strong>

Yes, intent is important. For example, when you drive your car on the highway, you kill a lot of bugs on the windshield, but it doesn't create bad karma because your intent isn't to kill bugs, it's just to get where your going. Karma is an abstract idea of morality. Unlike most other religion's moral principles with karma you aren't being 'judged'. Nothing is written down in lists of 'bad' and 'good' and theres no one to tell you which is which. Your entirely on your own, which is something I like. It gives a person the freedom to make mistakes and learn from them.

</strong>

I suppose if your satisfied with physical existence then theres no reason to seek a way to stop the rebirth. I never said I'm right, that Buddhism is right, or that other people or other paths are wrong. Obviously Buddhism isn't for everyone. I'm just trying to explain Buddhist philosophy based on my understanding of it.

</strong>

Yes. They are connected.

</strong>

People know these things through oberservation, and the philosophies were developed through questioning and reasoning. Also, Buddhist's believe that Sakyamuni Buddha was fully enlightened, and able to see beyond birth and death. However, since the Buddha was only concerned with teaching people to eliminate their suffering, and he taught according to the needs of his audience, I don't think he went into a lot of detail about specifics of karma. A lot of this came from Buddhist philosophers afterwards.

</strong>

I don't know? Maybe that's why people have liked the idea of karma throughout history.

</strong>

I don't know, I don't think the universe is dualistic though. I think I'm lost

</strong>

I don't think people should give up learning about the universe. Certainly that study has aided us a great deal. I enjoy learning about it as much as I can, although I get lost pretty easy when it comes to physics. Meditation is not a replacement for science certainly. I don't like the word 'dude' but sometimes it slips out.

</strong>

I didn't mean to single you out as being blind, everybody is blind when it comes to understanding other's perceptions. Language is pretty limited in its ability to give another the same experience as you.

</strong>

Yes. At the beginning of this thread I tried to say that Buddhist philosophy recognizes that there are an infinite amount of ways to perceive the universe, or ultimate reality or however you want to put it. No one perception is considered right over the others. Buddhism is only concerned with the matter of ending suffering. I don't know if I gave you the idea that I think 'spiritual perception' is superior to 'physical perception' but I don't. Nor do I think I have any better of an understanding of these things than most other people.

</strong>

Yes, I agree. I apologize if I'm coming off as arrogant in any way.

</strong>

But where is the self in the first place?

</strong>

Buddhists believe that attachment causes suffering. As to why Buddhists believe that, I'm thinking maybe I cannot adequetly explain these doctrines and I apologize.


</strong>

I think maybe people with mental illness can't meditate. Other than that, everyone can meditate. Meditation increases your mind power, or will power however you'd like to put it. The effects of this increase are better concentration, more control over your emotions, promoting happiness, promoting a gentle mind, manifestation of wisdom, reduced stress, better sleep, and a change of attitude. Your mind power increases every time you meditate regardless of whether you feel you had a good meditation or not. People can experience a lot of different phenomenon during meditation, and while it may be neat and make the person feel happy, these experiences are not the goal of meditation. In fact, sometimes these experiences can use up the mind power that meditation generates. Meditation is like food for your mind, it gives your mind the power it needs to work. Everyone meditates naturally when they fall asleep, however, practicing formal meditation can give them an extra boost which will have benefits.

</strong>

I think the theory of karma comes closest to explaining how things work, for everyone.

</strong>

I certainly think we have the ability to override that instict. It's obviously an important instict to have. It's when I run away from taking out the garbage to go sleep on the couch then it's a problem.


Please don't feel obligated to respond if you've had enough of this conversation You have a lot of messages on the go in this thread, and I don't mean to annoy you, I've managed to drag you quite far away from the original topic you asked about.

We seem to have gotten onto a number of topics here. Meditation, karma, attachment, the self... If you do want to continue this conversation I might do better if we focused on just one of these topics.

-Edited to add last paragraph

[ November 20, 2002: Message edited by: monkey mind ]</p>

Perchance

Hi monkey mind,

I haven't forgotten... I'd just neglected to check the topic for a few days, and then I miscounted the posts.

I don't have much time right now, but later I'll try to write a reply that does you justice.

If you're interested in focusing on just one out of those, tell me which one. If you don't have a particular choice, I would say that the self is my choice (to continue fitting in with the original topic of this thread). Of course, starting a new thread would work, too.

-Perchance.

monkey mind

Hey, no problem, reply whenever it's convenient. I think the self is a good topic, and also goes hand in hand with attachment. It's definately a difficult topic.