abe smith

SULLSTER, old [sic} dear; you are not the oldest member here @ Eye-Eye Forum; I am 76[as of last Jan]. Altho I am stiff in the hips & knees {It varies day by day.], I do not have any of the commoner afflictions many of my contemporaries complain {so much} about. As for the Thread-qy about the young & their knowledge/lack of knowledge..... Lots of little REAL children can pose some truly *stopper* qq; until the grownups forbid them to ask. As for the slightly-younger-than-the- asker-here teenagers who know it all.... eh! let it flow over you like water; why bother fighting w/ the ignorant? Surely you have better things to do?

Straight Hate

My hackles were raised upon first stumbling across this thread, but now that I've given it some thought (and beaten back my ego), there's a lot of truth in what's being said.

Now perhaps I have nothing worthwhile to add to the discussion (as the victim in me would love to bleed), but what I find when people progress beyond their teenage years is that they fail to either recognize or remember what being a teenager is like. The teenage years are one of transition, and simply said, what you *believe* is everything you *are*. Is it any surprise teenagers are always right?

What is inexcusable, however, is the condescension directed towards those in their adolescence. We haven't had the time to challenge and evaluate our beliefs as our elder counterparts have, nor have the capacities of our mind fully developed to the point where we can fully grasp various concepts. That said, would it not be more productive to accomadate and educate, effectively giving us an edge rather than to belittle and exclude (not to accuse anyone here of that, but it happens all over)? As a teen, nothing sparks more rage in me than an "old person" dismissing a rational, strongly held belief of mine on the basis that I'm young know-it-all when they themselves are totally ignorant on the issue. No one side shoulders all the blame.

I've been out on my own now for about 8 months, and while my parents have indeed grown smarter, there are many issues which still have not been put to rest. Is it because I'm still a young punk who knows everything there is to know, or is it because maybe the more flexible, open youth within me has proven my views to be - *gasp* - right? I disagree with anyone who insists you need experience in everything it is you're observing.

Thoughts? Comments? Patronizers be warned - I will hunt you down and beat you senseless.

Kosh

Is condescension really the right word? What you
may be seeing is really just frustration, or maybe
even a realization that there's no point. Mostly
it's a problem with the young ones not being
willing to listen to the opinion of experience.
Lack of respect for the elders is just as bad
as condescension.

I'm already seeing this in my 9 year old. Often
he simply will not listen. I tell him that he's
gotten a math problem wrong, that 9x6 is 54, not
56, and he'll argue with me like he's God. "No
Dad, you're wrong!".

It's this unwarranted self confidence that usually
leads to our frustration. Witness FastFalcon as
a case in point.

Straight Hate

Whether MadMordigan was kidding or not is not the issue, but "I'm sorry, but if you still live at home with your mommy, I find it almost impossible to take anything you say seriously." is sentiment that I've witnessed many times directed at myself and the youth around me. Granted, it's usually more subtle, but it is still there. I'm not arguing that it's not frustration, because I can understand why it might be there, but that frustration can clearly lead to condescension.

...And to be quite frank about elders and respect, in many cases, it seems doubtful they deserve it. I can only speak for myself, but respect is a two-way street. Everyone I come in contact with me automatically gets my utmost respect (if they've managed to live life that long, hell..). The same applies to a forum like this - I don't think there is a regular poster here that I don't value (hell, when I see a 70+ year-old poster on a place like this, "wow!" comes to mind!). But when someone doesn't return the gesture simply on the basis of age and not what I've said or what I've done... well, numerous crude gestures, words and actions come directly to mind.

What is 'respect' to you folks?

Straight Hate

But, as usual, I stray from the original topic. I think a teen preaching to a non-theist two or three times his age is ridiculous.

Sephiroth

IMO, respect is something earned, not something handed away like free tickets. And I'll be damned before I respect Pat Robertson just because he's older than me.

Kosh

Good point. I never intended to say that respect
is automatic. But in the example I gave, when
I've got a BS in Comp Sci, a minor in statisctics,
and a SAT score in the 98th percentile on math,
I shouldn't have to argue with my 9 year old!

Sephiroth

Good point, but I'd prefer a know-it-all kid over a kid who accepts anything anyone says (I acknowledge that neither is desirable).

Egoinos

I think it depends on how old they are. There is a lot of difference between 13 and 18. But I (and I should point out I'm 21 here) do try to listen to people who are younger than myself. I still remember being pissed off when I was six because people wouldn't treat me like a real person, with opinions and a mind of my own, and I try not to repeat that.
Not all people go through their teenage years without discussing "the big questions" i.e. philosophy. I know I certainly didn't. I remember many conversations with classmates about things like whether God exists, whether the Bible was true, what created the universe, what was "real", that sort of thing. We considered that perfectly normal, to discuss big questions like that, and when Sophie's World came out, everyone read it and then discussed the bits of philosophy in there - and were quite surprised to find the things we had been discussing had been discussed thousands of years ago!

They do say that children make the best philosophers - because they ask "why" all the time, and don't just accept "it just is" as an answer.

But I see no particular difference between disagreeing with someone younger than myself, or older - people can be stupid whatever their age.

--Egoinos--

[Edited to add: The only age group I would pay less attention to their arguments say, in favour of God, is those under the age of 10. I know its unlikely someone that young would ever preach to me, but if they did I would be less likely to take their arguments seriously, simply because its around the age of ten or above that you first are able to grasp abstract concepts - so someone below that age is merely repeating what others have said, and may not understand any counter argument. I would not, however, say that to them ]

[ May 22, 2002: Message edited by: Egoinos ]</p>

Kosh

Was it Einstein who once said that he'd only
had two original thoughts in his life?