wildernesse

Toto:
I don’t know. Why are humans so disposed to killing, rape, etc? Couldn’t a good, loving God create better humans? This is a better question I think. (My questions are from a slightly different perspective because I don’t just see the Bible as stories, but as histories handed down through tradition. The message is inspired—God wants us to be righteous people, reconciled with Him, and tells us how.)


Starspun:
Think of all the different denominations of Christianity and their interpretations of scripture—which ones are the “stripped-down version”? If you could enlighten the rest of the world about which one is the closest to real Chrisitianity, I would appreciate it. I am constantly amazed at the freethinkers who have accepted fundies/conservatives’ notions that only fundies/conservatives are Christians. Why?

Also, I don’t think it is very nice of you to suggest that I am brainwashed or that the leaders of my church are devious people. Telling theists that they have been brainwashed into nonsense (which you, wise atheist, can see right through!) is akin to saying that atheists have been deluded by Darwin. One day, you’ll wake up to the truth!


And Tricia, this is just what I think—just food for thought. I hope you are doing well and not too stressed. Have a great weekend.

--tiba

[ July 20, 2002: Message edited by: wildernesse ]</p>

DMB

For anyone interested in the development of the human idea of god, I would recommend <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345384563/qid=1027179394/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/103-7164141-4982201" target="_blank">this book.</a>

Karen Armstrong has apparently managed to hang on to a mystical view of god as a sort of basic truth behind religion, but her book gives a very clear analysis of the development of monotheism. To me, although perhaps not to everyone, it illustrates how god is a human construction. As someone who at the age of four had three imaginary dogs, I can relate to that!

Mad Kally

Tricia and I were both taught that every word of the bible is the literal Truth. The world was created in six 24 hour days and that's that!

Now she's hearing all these different stories from various types of Christians. Why can't they all believe the same thing? Which ones are the True Christians?

I'm a strong atheist but I never knew there were so many other types of Christian interpretations.

<img src="confused.gif" border="0">

The Other Michael

Hi tiba,

My take on that is there is a Christian Holy Book, allegedly divinely inspired, and the fundies are the ones that hew closest (or so it seems) to what is in that book.

Either it is all divinely inspired, or it is only partially or not at all inspired. Once people start picking and choosing the parts the like/dislike who gets to say what is the correct interpretation?

The fundie stance that it is ALL inspired, even the contradictions, certainly has problems as then you've got the apologetics needed for the contradictions. But it does seem like once people start saying "no, not that part, yes, this part" you've just stepped out on a very steep and slippery slope.

"Hi, I'm a Christian. I don't believe in a burning bush or a virgin birth, the bloody parts of the Old Testament or the non-loving parts of the New Testament, but I'm a Christian nonetheless".

See the problem?

cheers,
Michael

Queen of Swords

Well, this is David Mathews. She should be happy he's not stalking her.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by The Other Michael:
<strong>
Either it is all divinely inspired, or it is only partially or not at all inspired. Once people start picking and choosing the parts the like/dislike who gets to say what is the correct interpretation?</strong>

I've seen this referred to as "Cafeteria Christianity" - you take what you like, you leave what you don't. And of course, everyone likes something different. Fred Phelps, for example, likes the part about homosexuality being an abomination unto the lord.

MrDarwin

I'm always amazed when theists suggest that belief (or disbelief) in God is a choice. I could not choose to believe in God any more than I could choose to believe in Santa Claus. This is because belief is not a matter of what we want, it is a matter of what is true (or at least what we have good evidence of being true).

[ July 20, 2002: Message edited by: MrDarwin ]</p>

freemonkey

I don't want to be too critical of you here, David, but Tricia is going through a very real crisis of faith and has asked you some very specific questions. Is this all you've got?

It seems to me that you only want to share your amens and hallelujas with someone who is secure in her faith (Helen) and trade insults with atheists.

wildernesse

My mother used to tell me about a little girl who died because she opened the car door when the car was in motion. (This is before Georgia had a seatbelt law, so no one wore seatbelts.) For years, I thought that merely by opening the door when we were going down the road meant certain death—not that I might fall out and smash myself up or be run over by our own car, just suddenly dead in the seat.

When I got older, I realized that my mom told me this because she didn’t want me to be hurt by trying this hare-brained idea. I also realized that if I opened the door going down the road, I might fall out and be hurt/killed. When I was younger, I probably wouldn’t have believed her if she’d simply told me not to open the car door. Knowing me, I would have tried it to see if I really did get hurt.

The point is: it doesn’t matter whether or not the little girl in the story really existed or really had a bad accident. It matters that I understood not to open the car door. As I got older, I realized that the story wasn’t the point—the lesson was the point, even if the little girl did exist and die. Changing from a literal belief in the story didn’t make the lesson untrue and everything my mother said questionable. My mother simply told me how to be safe in a way that was appropriate for me at that age.

Admittedly, my example above isn’t perfect. But it comes as close as I can to my point (I’ll try to clarify, if needed). Why does the Bible have to be literal to have truth?

(We could also use the example of my dad who told me the greasy spots on the road/parking lot were from people who were hit by cars because they weren’t holding their parents’ hand. My parents were rather macabre.)

--tiba

[ July 20, 2002: Message edited by: wildernesse ]</p>

wildernesse

Michael,

I might start a new thread tonight or tomorrow about your post, because it has some points that I keep thinking about. I’ve not got all my thoughts in order right now, but maybe we could talk more. I’ll try to be brave and follow through.

--tiba