Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Baloo · 03-26-2003, 09:45 AM

You've matched 2 digits.

Here is the probability breakdown, btw:
0 correct: 3.4%
1 correct: 12.2%
2 correct: 21.0%
3 correct: 23.4 %
4 correct: 18.8%
More than 4: 21%
More than 8: 0.32%
More than 16: 0.00000013%
32 correct: 0.000000000000000000000000000001%

keyser_soze · 03-26-2003, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baloo
Is that your final answer? You've still got lifelines available - would you like to phone a friend?

That is my final answer! You are dangerously close to angering your new god! Do not make me rebuke thee!

keyser_soze · 03-26-2003, 11:08 AM

I, being a deity, insist on a redo!

My new offering to you...puny mortal...is the following number. This is my last offer of leniency, lest you think me uncaring of my creation..

84543867954098347621904853872582

xian · 03-26-2003, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baloo
It doesn't bode well for our discussion if you presume to know my thoughts - namely, to assume the conclusions I've reached in regards to the attributes of various deities. The God in which my mother believes, for instance, is not at all a cruel God. The God in which many fundamentalists believe, IMO, is. When I was a liberal Christian (which I'd transitioned into from my earlier fundamental views), I believed that love was the essense of God, and "God's cruelty" was simply a shortcoming of our perceptions of his nature. I still believe that a [extremely] liberal reading of the Bible can compatible with such a deity. It is quite likely, were I called back to "the flock", it would be those attributes I assigned to the deity. However, presumably, my attempts at open-mindedness in coming to believe in a god's existence would extend to an open-mindedness in deciding which attributes best described the god.

Please watch the mind-reading.

It doesn't feel like an accusation, but it really is annoying when people try to state your conclusions for you.

Well, I'd hope from here on out you'll think twice before you ask atheists "what would it take..." You might not get an answer you want to hear.

and you still haven't answered then. And you still haven't stated clearly if you see the J/C God as a cruel being- i dont care how your mom sees Him, or your buddies, or your x-girlfriend, or a "potential" xian...I am asking about how YOU see him. we are talking about the God of the Bible....the God that killed thousands of people as recorded in the Old Testament. We are talking about the God who will judge all men, and grant only some of them entrance into heaven. Granted, I assumed that you saw this God as cruel....perhaps it was a premature assumption, but I feel that it is a logical one, given the overwhelming majority of atheists make that conclusion about the Judeo Christian God. I believed this about you, and I still do. I may be wrong, but that is it is just a belief I have.

keyser_soze · 03-26-2003, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by xian
and you still haven't answered then. And you still haven't stated clearly if you see the J/C God as a cruel being- i dont care how your mom sees Him, or your buddies, or your x-girlfriend, or a "potential" xian...I am asking about how YOU see him. we are talking about the God of the Bible....the God that killed thousands of people as recorded in the Old Testament. We are talking about the God who will judge all men, and grant only some of them entrance into heaven. Granted, I assumed that you saw this God as cruel....perhaps it was a premature assumption, but I feel that it is a logical one, given the overwhelming majority of atheists make that conclusion about the Judeo Christian God. I believed this about you, and I still do. I may be wrong, but that is it is just a belief I have.

What has that to do with the test? It's only fair if YOU say it is? You are our new intercessor to the gods?

xian · 03-26-2003, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by keyser_soze
What has that to do with the test? It's only fair if YOU say it is? You are our new intercessor to the gods?

i wasn't talking to you.

keyser_soze · 03-26-2003, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xian
i wasn't talking to you.

Aye, but I'm sure talking to you.

xian · 03-26-2003, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by keyser_soze
Aye, but I'm sure talking to you.

hmmm...that you were.

as spock would say:

fascinating.

Baloo · 03-26-2003, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xian
and you still haven't answered then. And you still haven't stated clearly if you see the J/C God as a cruel being- i dont care how your mom sees Him, or your buddies, or your x-girlfriend, or a "potential" xian...I am asking about how YOU see him. we are talking about the God of the Bible....the God that killed thousands of people as recorded in the Old Testament. We are talking about the God who will judge all men, and grant only some of them entrance into heaven. Granted, I assumed that you saw this God as cruel....perhaps it was a premature assumption, but I feel that it is a logical one, given the overwhelming majority of atheists make that conclusion about the Judeo Christian God. I believed this about you, and I still do. I may be wrong, but that is it is just a belief I have.

Sorry, I think I actually misinterpretted your question earlier - I thought you were asking me to predict how I would view God were he to reveal his existence to me via this challenge (that is: a loving, but mysterious deity). Or perhaps how I saw him I when I was still a Christian (that is: a loving, but mysterious deity). I didn't realize you were asking me how I currently view the J/C God. Sorry.

At this point in time, I believe the J/C God has exactly one attribute: non-existence. I do not see the J/C God as "loving". I do not see the J/C God as "omniscient". Not as "omnipotent". Not as "cruel". Not "just". Not "unjust". Not "pink". Not "bearded". All of these contradict the current attribute of "non-existence" that I currently see the J/C God having, thus they are not attributes I currently see him having.

I suppose I didn't answer your question directly because I felt it was rather a non-starter...

Or do you want me to tell you whether I see the "how xian thinks all atheists are supposed to see the J/C God, specifically defined as having 'cruelty' as an attribute" J/C God as being cruel? If so, why?

Keyser: no offense to you or your deity, but I think a magic 8 ball might be a wonderful item to top your christmas list this year - it's loads of fun (for some) to try to guess what they will say next.

Justin70 · 03-26-2003, 02:55 PM

Baloo,

I found this thread to be HIGHLY amusing! I think your challenge is great and very straightfoward and not at ALL unacceptable to the Christian god. Why? Because when you quoted the passage of Thomas, that basically hit the nail on the head.

Thomas put forth the challenge and asked for proof and if I remember correctly was GIVEN the proof.

End of discussion. You are asking for the EXACT same criteria and yet the Christian god can't deliver it or any OTHER god for that matter. I wonder why that is?

The only response I've seen to this is Xian's response stating some gibberish regarding that Thomas was a theist and thereby the same criteria didn't apply.

<shaking head> I've seen copout after copout here and it truly is making me physically ill so see all the fallacies of logic that are protrayed here. Maybe one of these days a Christian will come around and actually be HONEST with themselves and say "I don't know. Perhaps you could be right!" - THAT would be more precious to me than any randomly generated 32 digit number. Wouldn't you agree?

In closing, kudos! You've made me smile and laugh out loud during this post and that alone has made reading 8+ pages worthwhile. I commend your honesty and your willingness in this thread. =)

Justin

03-26-2003, 09:45 AM	#201
Baloo Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 417	If 7 it is... You've matched 2 digits. Here is the probability breakdown, btw: 0 correct: 3.4% 1 correct: 12.2% 2 correct: 21.0% 3 correct: 23.4 % 4 correct: 18.8% More than 4: 21% More than 8: 0.32% More than 16: 0.00000013% 32 correct: 0.000000000000000000000000000001%

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03-26-2003, 11:08 AM	#203
keyser_soze Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: god's judge (pariah) Posts: 1,281	I, being a deity, insist on a redo! My new offering to you...puny mortal...is the following number. This is my last offer of leniency, lest you think me uncaring of my creation.. 84543867954098347621904853872582

03-26-2003, 02:55 PM	#210
Justin70 Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 314	Baloo, I found this thread to be HIGHLY amusing! I think your challenge is great and very straightfoward and not at ALL unacceptable to the Christian god. Why? Because when you quoted the passage of Thomas, that basically hit the nail on the head. Thomas put forth the challenge and asked for proof and if I remember correctly was GIVEN the proof. End of discussion. You are asking for the EXACT same criteria and yet the Christian god can't deliver it or any OTHER god for that matter. I wonder why that is? The only response I've seen to this is Xian's response stating some gibberish regarding that Thomas was a theist and thereby the same criteria didn't apply. <shaking head> I've seen copout after copout here and it truly is making me physically ill so see all the fallacies of logic that are protrayed here. Maybe one of these days a Christian will come around and actually be HONEST with themselves and say "I don't know. Perhaps you could be right!" - THAT would be more precious to me than any randomly generated 32 digit number. Wouldn't you agree? In closing, kudos! You've made me smile and laugh out loud during this post and that alone has made reading 8+ pages worthwhile. I commend your honesty and your willingness in this thread. =) Justin

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