Layman

For whatever reason, there seems to be an increasingly anti-French sentiment in the U.S. It's produced some good jokes, though:

"Jay Leno says it's no surprise the French won't help us get Saddam Hussein out of Iraq. They didn't help us get Germany out of France, either. Still, it's essential for them to join us in the war against Iraq. They can teach the Iraqis how to surrender."

"And why are French streets tree-lined? So the Germans can march in the shade."

"How many Frenchmen does it take to defend Paris? No one knows. It's never been tried."

"What do you call 100,000 Frenchmen with their hands up? The army."

"How many gears does a French tank have? Five, four in reverse and one forward (in case of attack from behind)."

"FOR SALE: French rifles . . . never fired, only dropped once."

Dennis Miller: "The French are always reticent to surrender to the wishes of their friends and always more than willing to surrender to the wishes of their enemies

August Spies

I only find one of those clever (the army one) and none of them particularly funny.

Okay correct me if im wrong but the only time the french could ever really be said to have surrendered was WWII. Sure they lost other wars, Napoleon eventually lost (after conquering virtually all of europe), They lost their colonies (along with everyone else), so yes the French got beat by hitler... along with half of europe. I fail to see this as some great proof that the french "surrender" all the time. It seems like people are just scrambling to find something to attack them about.

Layman

Well, there's no accounting for taste.

That seems to be the beginning of the running joke.

France's greatest successes have come at the hands of a dictator, it is true.

Yup.

Well, you are minimizing what happened. They had a bigger army than Hitler. More tanks. Better tanks. Yet they surrendered shortly after Hitler invaded. And with substantial forces and more than 3/4ths of their country left.

I think there is more too it than French failures in WW II. There is also their behavior during the Cold War. They protested allowing W. Germany to rearm despite the threat from the Warsaw Pact. They refused to left French forces serve in a combined NATO command. They kicked all American troops out of their country early in the Cold War (at which point a U.S. general asked if we should dig up the bodies of our dead soldiers there). They refused to allow overflight rights when the US struck against Libya.

ex-idaho

Typically Americans have a very poor recollection of history. Had the French and the Germans given the American colonies during the Revolutionary War we would have lost to the British.

The anti-French sentiment in the US is not so much one of politics but of culture. the American middle class culture of moral repression is at complete odds with that of the French. Not to mention the fact that France was the birthplace of the enlightenment and we all know that Americans can not allow enlightenment to flourish.

Layman

Umm, my recollection of American history is just fine. And I seem to remember that most of the Germans involved were fighting for the British.

As for the French, I suspect most Americans think their more recent actions in the recently closed 20th century are slightly more relevant than repaid support during the Revolutionary War.

Actually, anti-French sentiment has flourished more strongly during the recent political clashes between our countries. Suggesting very strongly that you are wrong. Of course, it is likely that cultural differences find their way into political conflict.

Actually, it is more likely that assertive foreign policy is at complete odds with French anti-"hyperpower" sentiment.

France was also the birthplace of the Guillotine.

All of these jokes are about politics and military affairs, none of them are about different moral creeds. Your explanation, thefefore, fails to account for this phenomenon.

ex-idaho

Layman I was referring to the general anti-French sentiment in the US that has existed for years. Americans have been poking fun at the French for a very long time. It is only since Bush came into office and they decided to stand up for themselves that the name calling has taken on a more severe tone.

Of course since Bush took office all of Europe, with the exception of the poorest nations have decided that the US is a threat to world peace. The only reason we have the support of the poorest nations is because they are so easily bought. Offer a little foreign aid and some heavy artillery and what you know, instant ally, just add cash.

Clutch

Yes, that recent American phenomenon of excoriating the French, practiced by such recent figures as Mark Twain...

Layman

Well, French surrender in WW II and its timid stance in the Cold War were years ago.

But I suppose some of it could have existed since the 1790s, when the French and the U.S. were in a de facto naval war.

Sure, as they have us, but its really picked up recently.

Actually, they are not standing up for themselves. They are standing up for Iraq. Like the stood up for Libya back in the 80s. Or when they stood up against the West Germans after WW II. Or against NATO during the early 60s.

Hmmm. Britain, Italy, and Spain are "the poorest nations" of Europe?

Remember the Statement of Support from 8 European nations?

Spain, Portugal, Italy and Britain, the president of the Czech Republic and the prime ministers of Hungary, Poland and Denmark, coming out in firm support of the US.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77083,00.html


And why are you so dismissive of Albania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Romania, Slovakia and Slovenia?

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=19022

Sounds like something akin to French snobbery to me.

I doubt Britian, Spain, Denmark, Italy, and Portugal are waiting for the big payoff. (Or Australia, who is a huge backer of the US effort).

But even for the "poor" countries this is ridiculous. These countries are desperate to be part of the EU (with its substantial financial incentives and payoffs), and displeasing France and Germany to support the US is the exact wrong way of going about it.

A more likely scenario is that these countries, having been recently freed from tyranny largely because of US exertion of international influence, recognize a threat when they see one. It is loyalty, gratitiude, and experience, not financial motive, that drives them.

Layman

Hence the use of the term "increasingly."

sir drinks-a-lot

I had to laugh at this.

Of course, it isn't just the Americans that make fun of the French. Every other country in Europe does as well.