EstherRose

Jesus describes the signs of the end times then says the generation that witnesses the signs He described, especially the abomination that causes desolation, will not pass away until all of those things have come to pass.

mark9950

He said to his apostles "this generation"(the people that lived in jesus time) not any other.You apologists alway twists things to what you want it to mean.

Well than I would like to meet your God and Jesus before I even believe in him.I do not anymore join religious christian cults which base their belief only on belief and without proof of claims.

If God exists prove it to me and I would like to meet him face to face.NOW.

Rhaedas

Levels suck...so no equality in heaven either. Sounds more and more like a fun place.

And I don't reject any deity....that's acknowledging they exist. I simply don't see why I should believe such things, given my "god-given" ability to analyse the evidence against them.

I didn't realize there was biblical backing for various levels in hell, I thought that was from fiction. Oh wait... I mean, a different book.

Godless Wonder

What about:

Mark 9.1: And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death,till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Ricomise

I think it might be more like an exit interview:


GOD: Now, looking at your file, I see that your sin count started out low, accelerated during the middle of your tenure, and then decreased at the end. Why do you think that is?

and:

GOD: What could we have done to make your experience with us more productive?

Aravnah Ornan

One day you will meet Hank (Epistle of Karl). Then he will either give you the million dollars or give you a good kicking. But, of course, none of that will happen while you're still here in town.

Taffer

So, uh, let me get this straight. If you don't accept Jesus, off to hell you go. Belief is the crucial point. I got that much.

But the deed judging results in different hats for you to wear in heaven? WTF? Who cares about crowns when you get to be chummy with god? Will some souls feel holier-than-thou because they got more sparkly crowns since they donated more to charity than others? Will your crown miss a sapphire for every time you've executed a Manual Override, or what?

Koyaanisqatsi

Yes, and, unfortunately that prophecy is from Daniel (emphasis mine; translation, Young's Literal Translation, so that we can examine what was actually being written and not merely interpolated):

Got that?

Gabriel tells Daniel that "at the commencement of thy supplications hath the word come forth" that his people have seventy weeks total to get their sh*t together and that "from the going forth of the word" the "Messiah the Leader" will show up in seven weeks and, apparently, hang around and oversee for the next sixty two weeks while Jerusalem is built up and then, after those sixty two weeks (totaling sixty nine weeks at this point; sixty two plus the seven), the Messiah is cut off from helping the Jews get their sh*t together and the city and the holy place aren't his to oversee anymore and his job then becomes one of destoyer of those non-holiest of the holies who weren't properly anointed to be spared and the city (and the non-anointed Jews) are to killed by a flood (and there will be wars and desolation during those weeks as well).

That leaves one week left, during which time, apparently, he ceases the practice of sacrificing to Yahweh, so the path to salvation is ended for anyone left over. He is the destroyer--literally, not metaphorically or figuratively, but literally, with a city and poeple destroying flood--as well as god's instrument to end any hope of salvation by those remaining.

Sound like Jesus to anybody?

And then Daniel describes for two more chapters what all is going to happen during this desolation--during the seventy weeks that lead up to the city/people destroying flood--until we get to:

Got that, too?

This is the end of Daniel's "vision;" with two messengers standing on the waters of the flood with which the Messiah has just used to destroy the city and people of the rebuilt Jerusalem; a rebuilding that is to start right after Daniel has received the prophecy from Gabriel described in Chapter 9 and end seventy weeks later in Daniel's lifetime, which never happened.

Now, since this didn't happen in Daniel's lifetime and it is therefore a failed prophecy, presumably Matthew quotes Daniel to invoke this prophecy as in order to try and force it to relate to Jesus and if the NT were "true," then the "turning aside of the perpetual [sacrifice]" would be god's way of telling us that Daniel meant that after Jesus is killed on the cross and "to the giving out of the desolating abomination" would be a period of one thousand, two hundred and ninety days (about three and a half years).

Daniel's prophecy in relation to Jesus would have to mean that Jesus dies and then three and a half years later the "giving out of the desolating abomination" begins and that lasts, apparently, for another three and a half years (plus about two more months).

So, presumably (and in keeping with christian dogma) the "second coming" is then the "desolate one" who is, apparently "waiting earnestly" until after all of this mess, and he is to show up about ten years after Jesus was killed on the cross and that marks the end times (according to a Christian exegesis of Daniel).

So no matter how you read Daniel (the way it was meant to be read; i.e., according to Jewish dogma; or the Christian's bastardization of it), it is a failed prophecy, since clearly the "end times" did not come ten years after Jesus was allegedly killed on a cross and Jesus did not destroy the rebuilt city of Jerusalem with a flood.


Daniel did not prophesy Jesus in any way, which means that, if Matthew is an accurate account of what Jesus actually told his followers, then he was lying to them.

But please don't let these easily discernable facts shake you from your convictions and beliefs. After all, what good is the Bible to all of us nonbelievers, right? As Paul lies to his sheep, your god deliberately caused intelligence to be foolish and foolishness to be intelligence and god's word will always confuse us and never confuse you, no matter how asinine and obvious such transparent snake-oil salesmanship truly is, right?

Bleat little sheep, bleat, for it is time to be shorn, blunt-force trauma-killed and eaten for the last supper.

mark9950

as facts with proof and not just your belief?

Just because you believe does not mean it has or will happen,especially if it did not in the first place.

Also can you prove that daniel even existed?Using historical records like records of ancient artifacts?

There are many records of proof of the babylonians and sumerians in museums in the middle east especially egypt.

The egyptians today do not believe in the exodus because the egyptians wrote everything down,but the egyptians never wrote down the exodus,they were meticulous record keepers.

If you do not believe it go take a trip to egypt and see for yourself.

EstherRose

But so much has been lost. Can you tell me the line of succession in the 18th dynasty of Ancient Egypt for certain? Can you tell me exactly who Smenkhkare is? If Egyptologists have trouble even determining for certain the lineage of more recent pharoahs in Egypt, how can you say for certain that a bunch of outsiders were not present in Ancient Egypt?