Freethought & Rationalism Archive

godfry n. glad · 08-20-2002, 11:15 AM

lpetrich asked:

Quote:

Any opinions on equivocation like "Jesus Christ's resurrection was real -- it happened in the minds of his early followers"?

Sure:

"Superman's ability to fly was real -- it happened in the minds of his early readers."

"Spiderman's wall-crawling was real -- it happened in the minds of his early readers."

"Paul Bunyan's huge size was real -- it happened in the minds of those recounting the tales."

"The spaceship behind the comet was real -- it happened in the minds of the believers."

"Joseph Smith's golden tablets were real -- it happened in the minds of his early followers."

...ad nauseum....

It sure sounds to me as if somebody is toying with the definition of "real", expanding it to include anything and everything which can be imagined.

godfry n. glad

Vorkosigan · 08-20-2002, 03:50 PM

Atticus

<a href="http://www.barna.org," target="_blank">www.barna.org,</a> the Christian survey organization, does periodic surveys of the beliefs of clergy, lay assistants and the general population. If you run some searches on keywords like 'divorce' or 'resurrection' you'll find lots of hard data on what people really believe about jesus -- like 35% of ordinary evangelicals denying that jesus was raised physically!

Vorkosigan

Secular Pinoy · 08-22-2002, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter Kirby:
<strong>An incomplete list of 20th century persons who profess to be Christians but doubt the historicity of the empty tomb story: Marcus Borg, Gunther Bornkamm, Gerald Boldock Bostock, Rudolf Bultmann, John Dominic Crossan, Maurice Goguel, Hans Grass, Charles Guignebert, Uta Ranke-Heinemann, Herman Hendrickx, Roy Hoover, Helmut Koester, Hans Kung, Alfred Loisy, Willi Marxsen, Norman Perrin, Marianne Sawicki, Bishop John Shelby Spong, and Rev. John T. Theodore.

Former Christian theologians include Robert Price, Gerd Ludemann, and Michael Goulder.

best,
Peter Kirby</strong>

In other words, the most prominent members of the Jesus Seminar. BTW, are there conservative theologians in the JS? Or are they all Hellbound Liberals who deny God's word using different colored balls?

Peter Kirby · 08-23-2002, 12:02 AM

Pinoy writes: In other words, the most prominent members of the Jesus Seminar.

Most of the writers mentioned are not part of the Jesus Seminar, although some are of course.

Pinoy writes: BTW, are there conservative theologians in the JS?

Bruce Chilton and Ramsey Michaels are in the Jesus Seminar.

Pinoy writes: Or are they all Hellbound Liberals who deny God's word using different colored balls?

People who are attracted to join the Jesus Seminar would necessarily be those who are interested in the reconstruction of the historical Jesus and, thus, do not believe that the Bible is 100% fact.

best,
Peter Kirby

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08-20-2002, 03:50 PM	#12
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	Atticus <a href="http://www.barna.org," target="_blank">www.barna.org,</a> the Christian survey organization, does periodic surveys of the beliefs of clergy, lay assistants and the general population. If you run some searches on keywords like 'divorce' or 'resurrection' you'll find lots of hard data on what people really believe about jesus -- like 35% of ordinary evangelicals denying that jesus was raised physically! Vorkosigan

08-23-2002, 12:02 AM	#14
Peter Kirby Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor Posts: 4,035	Pinoy writes: In other words, the most prominent members of the Jesus Seminar. Most of the writers mentioned are not part of the Jesus Seminar, although some are of course. Pinoy writes: BTW, are there conservative theologians in the JS? Bruce Chilton and Ramsey Michaels are in the Jesus Seminar. Pinoy writes: Or are they all Hellbound Liberals who deny God's word using different colored balls? People who are attracted to join the Jesus Seminar would necessarily be those who are interested in the reconstruction of the historical Jesus and, thus, do not believe that the Bible is 100% fact. best, Peter Kirby

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