diana

Actually, hinduwoman, I don't want to brag, but I can. The catch is what I offer is of a more temporal nature. (Hot wings, barbequed flesh and harping available upon request; I also offer light bondage, spankings and hot wax for an additional fee. Surcharge for parties of 10 or more.)

d

John Paul

Since I'm Christian...and I'm assuming this lady was too. There would be a reason for her still to believe that you would end up going to hell. Not trying to claim that you're an atrocious human devil being or anything....

Basically Christianity teaches that you are saved by Christ Jesus, not by your actions. If you could attain your own salvation, why did Jesus have to die on the cross? Therefore, you could do more than Mother Theresa in your life to help others, but without accepting Christ's free gift of sacrifice and letting Him be lord of your life, you have no hope.

The Apostle

[ January 01, 2002: Message edited by: John Paul ]</p>

John Paul

Again, (and it's sad that I have to keep pointing this out...) Christianity teaches salvation through Christ not through works. Your "roasting on a spit," as you called it, would be a punishment for sin in your life. It you'd just accept Christ's gift from the cross, your debt would be paid in full, allowing you to enter heaven and praise God for being merciful when you look down and see what you really deserved. NO one is perfect- No one. And the wages of sin is death, so in fact we all deserve hell for our sins no matter how many good deeds we perform while on this earth. Hell isn't a place where you're threathened to go if you don't do good things, it's a place where you are punished for rejecting God. Yes rejecting Jesus is rejecting God because Jesus was God. These are the facts...and if you refuse to accept them, then I have one quote for you-

Whether you like it or not, there is a God and he is holy and just. Your punishment will be due to you if you reject Him.

The Apostle

P.S. And yes I know that this quote was initially used against the church, but that only proves that no matter how "righteous" one thinks of themselves, if they're wrong, they're wrong.

[ January 01, 2002: Message edited by: John Paul ]</p>

diana

Hi there, JP.

Again, (and it's sad that I have to keep pointing this out...) Christianity teaches salvation through Christ not through works.

Lemme guess...James 2.17,18 is...metaphorical?

Your "roasting on a spit," as you called it, would be a punishment for sin in your life.

Or in my case, a punishment for not believing in him at all.

It you'd just accept Christ's gift from the cross, your debt would be paid in full, allowing you to enter heaven and praise God for being merciful when you look down and see what you really deserved.

I don't remember racking up any debt. Hence, I don't feel obliged to pay one. I suspect you understand this if someone comes to you for money you haven't spent (or comes to imprison you for a murder you haven't committed), but for some reason, you accept it without qualification because a primitive group of nomadic goat-herders said it was so. Here's a quiz: which one of us is more gullible?

And the wages of sin is death, so in fact we all deserve hell for our sins no matter how many good deeds we perform while on this earth.

Actually, the wages of life is death.

Hell isn't a place where you're threathened to go if you don't do good things, it's a place where you are punished for rejecting God.

Both, actually.

Yes rejecting Jesus is rejecting God because Jesus was God.

But he isn't any more?

These are the facts...

How, um, convincing you are in your bald assertions. Thank you for your time. You may go now.

and if you refuse to accept them, then I have one quote for you-

NO! NOT THE QUOTE! I CAN'T TAKE IT! Anything but the quote...please....

None the less, the earth moves.
-Galileo

AAAAAAAAIIIIIIGGGGGGGH!

Whether you like it or not, there is a God and he is holy and just.

'Tain't a matter of what I like or not, my sweet. 'Tis a matter of what stands to reason, and you appear to be sitting at the moment.

Your punishment will be due to you if you reject Him.

Bring...THE COMFY CHAIR!

The Apostle

d
The Anti-postle

John Paul

Originally posted by diana:
Hi there, JP.

Hi D.

Lemme guess...James 2.17,18 is...metaphorical?

James 2 talks about a faith in God at all. Maybe you should read Romans 3:21-5:11.

Or in my case, a punishment for not believing in him at all.

You quoted it yourself...James 2:17-18. You're right on this point. Even the demons belive in God...are you then declaring to be worse than them? Think about that...

I don't remember racking up any debt. Hence, I don't feel obliged to pay one. I suspect you understand this if someone comes to you for money you haven't spent (or comes to imprison you for a murder you haven't committed), but for some reason, you accept it without qualification because a primitive group of nomadic goat-herders said it was so. Here's a quiz: which one of us is more gullible?

The wages of sin is death. You have sinned, I have sinned, "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"-Romans 3:23 That would give you a debt not of monetary value but of spiritual value.

And just for future knowledge, I listened to the son of a carpenter not a goat-herder. And God said what was right and wrong, not goat-herders and not you nor me.

Gullible in what sense? Explain.

Actually, the wages of life is death.

Actually- the wages of sin is death like I said before. Why is it that sin is and not life? Well correct me if I'm wrong...but the last time I checked, everyone that ever sinned died, and Jesus, the only person who didn't sin, died and rose again making Him not dead now. If that is wrong, please go to the tomb and check for yourself...The only reason He died was to pay for your and my sin.

Both, actually.

To a ceratin degree, you're right. But my statement was in reference to the belief that good deeds will keep you out of hell. Good deeds alone are good, but won't save you from anything. Belief in Jesus Christ and the acceptance of Him as lord of your life will however.

But he isn't any more?

Trying to put words in my mouth eh? Don't acclaim me with saying He wasn't if I never said it. I don't want to take credit for your assumptions about what I could have possibly meant or implied by statements that I made. However, if I made a statement and was wrong I will be corrected for it and learn from it... So please don't credit me for something I didn't say...

How, um, convincing you are in your bald assertions. Thank you for your time. You may go now.

See being convinced of my assertions is called faith...and I believe that there is logic behind them. Therefore making them "have hair"

I didn't ask for your time nor did I need to. I am hear to speak the truth and defend the name of my God.

NO! NOT THE QUOTE! I CAN'T TAKE IT! Anything but the quote...please....

...AAAAAAAAIIIIIIGGGGGGGH!

Oh D's got jokes eh?

'Tain't a matter of what I like or not, my sweet. 'Tis a matter of what stands to reason, and you appear to be sitting at the moment.

You're right it doesn't matter whether you like it or not, because it's still the truth. More jokes...no apparent convincing argument, just jokes....

Bring...THE COMFY CHAIR!

I rest my case your honor...refer to prior statement...

[ January 01, 2002: Message edited by: John Paul ]</p>

diana

Good evening, JP.

I don't want to waste your time with trivialities (any more), so I'll get straight to the point: I don't believe in your god and until you can give me one solid reason to believe in it, all of your blathering is for naught.

James 2.17, 18 says faith without works is dead. Hence, faith and works are both important.

For the record, I declare myself less gullible than "the devils" you cite from your mythology manual. I don't buy every god that comes down the pike. As a matter of fact, since they all come with the same messengers, basically, and no evidence at all, I don't buy any of them. The question is, why do you? Think about that....

The wages of sin is death. ...That would give you a debt not of monetary value but of spiritual value.

More blather from your storybook. What makes you think this is true?

And just for future knowledge, I listened to the son of a carpenter not a goat-herder.

A son of a carpenter who espoused an almighty god who was the brainchild of nomadic goat-herders. But whatever.

And God said what was right and wrong, not goat-herders and not you nor me.

You know this how?

Gullible in what sense? Explain.

What evidence do you have that the bible, which you keep quoting at me, has a shred of truth to it?

but the last time I checked, everyone that ever sinned died,

The last time I checked, everyone who ever lived died. So through inclusion, I guess I can't contest your statement.

and Jesus, the only person who didn't sin, died and rose again making Him not dead now. If that is wrong, please go to the tomb and check for yourself....



But he isn't any more?

Trying to put words in my mouth eh? (etc)

Oh, take a chill pill. I was just making fun of the way you said it ("Yes rejecting Jesus is rejecting God because Jesus was God.") I knew what you meant, but I chose to remark instead on what you said. Humor. Sorry it ticked you off so. I didn't mean it that way.

See being convinced of my assertions is called faith...and I believe that there is logic behind them.

Please produce it. Or just explain how "faith" and "logic" are mutually compatible.

I am hear to speak the truth and defend the name of my God.

Thanks for that. We never get enough Xn arrogance around here.

More jokes...no apparent convincing argument, just jokes....

Because you popped in and presumed to tell me The Truth, I'm not taking your post seriously. I'm amused that this offends you.

Welcome to the SecWeb, where you are called upon to support your assertions. You've done nothing but preach. This is how we treat preachers, usually.

If you'd like to discuss, however, that's a completely different matter.

Burden of proof lies with the claimant. Your witness.

d