Biff the unclean

It was the episode where Jerry & George try to sell the defunked Jerry pilot to Japanese TV and Kramer has 3 Japanese tourists staying in his apartment sleeping in his dresser draws that he got from Elaine's boy friend of the week, a famous furniture designer. Jerry has to chop them out with an axe because Kramers hot tub warpped the dresser and hits the boyfriend in the head.

Hmmm, maybe I should go to a Southern Baptist service and watch a little less TV.

Biff the unclean

I believe another reason there is so little evangelism in churches today is that most Christians have no idea why they believe what they believe, other than the fact they were brought up that way.
I would guess that another reason is that most Christians are brought up to have a pretty decent set of manners. Evangelism is just out and out impolite so they are loath to lower themselves to such rude behavior.

Hubble head

I had similar experiences with jews but that was more of an outsider "never can be like us" thing I think. A good friend is 1/2 jewish (actually SB dad and jewish mom) and they're kind of assholes to him too.

Funny thing about those SBs, they know how to spot a shlep and go after them with a vengance. I think it's not really about souls but tidings. If you look like you're down and out, vulnerable or just lonely they are on you like stink on organic waste material.

I have found from a few of my own experiences that they HATE rejection - so if they saw you as a strong independant minded person they will often avoid you like the plague. Show some weakness and they're in for the kill.

My sister used to work for Hilton in reservation and convention planning. Guess whose convention they feared booking the most? Why the Southern Baptists, of course.

More booze bought, porno movies (and demands for porno movie reversal charges) and stolen towels, bed sheets, and stuff happened that week than any other conference Hilton hosted nationwide.

The only thing worse than the SB's were spring breakers.

Rushianbeing

Oh yeah, Biff, I remember now!! What a great show...

Pyrrho, I see your point, but I don't think I'm being unreasonably hard on them, because the ingredients of every sermon I've ever heard there have been "go out and preach the gospel to every one you meet; don't just live by example, don't keep your joy to yourself, EVANGELIZE out loud using your proud Christian voice!". They are very, very, very clearly demanding of themselves and everyone in the room that they do this thing, yet they are very, very very clearly not doing it. That's it in black and white, I don't think there's a good rationalization for this...it's just plain old blatant hypocrisy.
I tend to agree with Spacedout's explanation, that most xians today have no idea why they believe what they believe. Or what they believe period-I don't think these particular people have a coherent set of beliefs. And, perhaps as a consequence of that, they're afraid if they start evangelizing me and I ask questions, they won't be able to answer them satisfactorily and they'd get upset. I think they just don't want a confrontation-they'd rather stay comfortable, and talk trash about people behind their backs when they leave rather than honestly try to have conversations with them (my friend has tales of horror all the time of the gossips in her church-in fact, she seems to dislike everyone there so much that I'm honestly not sure why she's even going in the first place!!).

Finally, Brighid, I have a pentagram tattooed on my right shoulderblade (more correctly, it's the man-in-the-star from the Rush cover art), so I can take your advice any time if I so wish!! (I've kept it under wraps at this church in the past, for my friend's sake.)

Rushianbeing

Awesome!! Lots of doing unto others going on, eh?? >

Pyrrho

Although I agree with you when you say that many people are not up for converting others, I disagree with your conclusion. With your interaction with the pastor, you probably showed that you were absolutely NOT the perfect target, contrary to what you claim. By asking certain kinds of questions, you are doing exactly what you are not supposed to do. Your questions probably showed a certain kind of skepticism, and that is judged to be very bad. One is supposed to have faith, and you were probably not doing your part on this.

Let me illustrate this with a couple of examples. If you ask: "What do I have to do to get into heaven?” that is a "good" question, and shows the right kind of interest. But if you ask: "What evidence is there for any of this stuff?" and "Why should I believe anything you say?" these are generally the wrong kinds of questions to ask. The person who asks the first question is more likely to be "ready" for "salvation", but the person who asks the latter questions is probably not "ready" for "salvation". (Of course, a lot depends on the context of the questions, so particular cases may vary from my general description.)

So, some people are ready to be saved and others are not. It is unreasonable to expect people to waste their time on those who are not ready.

Furthermore, by asking certain kinds of questions, you may be showing that you are really a tool of the devil, trying to cast doubt upon the sacred word of god. If so, you need to be kept away from the flock so that you do not tempt them to the fires of hell.


The reason that you and Rushianbeing seem to regard them as being hypocritical about these things is that you are not really looking at it from their perspective. They cannot save everyone, so there will always be individuals who will remain outside the flock. You have been corrupted by Satan, and therefore, unless God in his mercy decides to win you over, you will be forever lost.

Pyrrho

Typically, the Baptismal is behind the pulpit, or off to the side, and you would never get into it dressed that way. They would tell you to come back dressed more appropriately. And if you did do it, only dressed as one would normally expect, you may be right to be concerned about what would happen if you did such a thing. I think it would depend on the particular church and the particular things that you did. I would not recommend it as an actual thing to do.

Hubble head

Rushianbeing, when they pray and sing do you go along or fake it?

Whenver I go to church for weddings or funerals, I hold my head up as high as I can with my eyes wide open during prayer -usually to look for others doing the same or sing "liar liar" in my head as the fool on the podium rambles on. I once caught rolling eyes from a friend I never knew was non theist at a funeral when the minister went into the "castle's in the sky" bit.

An atheist on another board chewed me out when I posted that and told me I was being disrespectful. Can't imagine why.

brighid

COOL!! Yeah, it probably wouldn't be too good for her if they knew her friend had a tatoo of that sort!

Brighid

Rushianbeing

Pyhrro-So they'll only talk to people if they know the outcome will be "positive"? That's a pretty shady attitude. Seems real easy for them to make excuses for not practicing what they preach-when god is ready for them to evangelize someone, he'll present them with an easy target. I'm sure you're right, this is exactly how they rationalize their inaction. Total silliness and cowardice, IMO. Haven't they ever heard "if it's worthwhile it's worth working for", or something like that?

This is all very interesting...