The SwampThing

Don´t force me to bring into the discussion the Moscow theatre example.Oh well... You asked for it!

Let´s assume for a moment, that the american Spec Ops teams are AT LEAST just as good as the russians, and possess the same equipment.
If the russians were able to take control of a building that size, and still come out saving 60% of those inside (it was a real fuckup), wouldn´t you say the US troops are able of controling a single house???
Even if they fucked up as bad as the russians, they would still be able to pull at least 2 guys out alive!!
But i still think the american Spec Ops are better trained and equipped. I´m shure the US teams would save at least 3...

And don´t you come here claiming the iraqis would "free" the brothers, neither!
With all that firepower available, don´t you think they would be capable of keeping the area secured?
And in case you forgot, the op took at least 4 hours!!! If the iraqis had infact wanted to free them, they shure had the time to do it if they wanted, don´t you think?
Those are just lame excuses, to justify a a fuckup just as bad as the russian!
They should have been taken alive, and you know it.
If the US Army hadn´t been so trigger happy and jumped the gun, they could have done it...

I still liked to know why didn´t some top brass took charge of the entire op! Or, if one did, why was he so darn incompetent??

I guess we can chalk this one as another real fuckup, alongside with Waco, Ruby Ridge, the Iran hostages, and even Noriega.
Oh, before i forget, you mentioned Noriega´s op, right?
We know that it was a total bust, but i was under the impression those guys learn with past mistakes... Maybe i´m wrong.
But i still think rock n´roll would not work with Uday, he was a real party dude!! Or was it Qusay?! Bahh, who cares?
But there are other methods, are they not? Could it be that PsyOps only use that one tactic???
Nah...
If my memory serves me, they also worked in Vietnam, printing brochures, and talking at megaphones and shit !
I remember also how they used vietnamese people to kidnapp a few VC generals,and used them as hitmen, and how they left those people behind, leaving them to feel the wrath of the north vietnamese, when Saygon fell. Splendid work!! Splendid work indeed!!

Sorry, i had to take that one out of my system.


PS:
Common people, i know you guys know all this just as i do. So why do you keep defending and justifying such a huge fuckup operation??
Wouldn´t it be "nice" to have those 2 trophees for show to the american public?
Or asking them where those slippery WMDs are? I know you would want that, at least to prove us "Bush bashers" wrong, am i right?
Well, you can kiss your best chance goodbye now!
I know a few of you are secretly banging your heads on the wall, for that little "mishap"!!
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

NO MORE LAME EXCUSES , PLEASE.

Loren Pechtel

Something to keep in mind: The hostages weren't armed.

In such assaults anyone in the building with a weapon in their hand is unlikely to survive. Groups like Delta Force are trained to identify the difference between good guys and bad guys. They are *NOT* trained to capture the bad guys, though, but to give them 7.62mm holes.

The SwampThing

Loren, you have an uncanny ability of stating the obvious...
Didn´t i just say

"NO MORE LAME EXCUSES!" ?!?

Please... spare me...i can´t take it anymore! AARRRRRRRGGGGH!!
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

P.S: Pssssst, the terrorrists in Moscow had guns, many guns...but they were taken out with sleeping gas, not bullits.It was only after they were knocked out, that the russians putted a bullit between their eyes...

Koyaanisqatsi

First of all, they're trained to do whatever they are ordered to do.

Secondly, if you're correct, and Delta Force are not trained to do anything they are ordered to do (i.e., they are not trained to capture the bad guys), then what the fuck were they doing there?

Where were the guys and gals who are trained for live capture?

You're all but declaring that the people we use for assassination (and not live capture) were sent there deliberately to do what it is they are trained to do; i.e., assassination.

You're proving the point. We used the wrong tool for the wrong reason (which, in Bush's admin apparently translates into, "we used the right tool for the right reason"). If you're correct, then by using Delta Forces we were sending in death commandoes and nothing else as an executive decision.

DOLBAC DENIS

I would bet Saddam won't be reasonable either (if they find him) and they will have no alternative but to shoot him.
Can you imagine a trial where he will sing like a canary, explaining the deal he made last time with daddy Bush!!!!
Newspaper would have editorial marterial for their sons, grand sons, grand grand sons (or daughters, no sexism involved)