Freethought & Rationalism Archive

mountainman · 03-27-2007, 04:19 PM

JULIAN (or via: amazon.co.uk) - A Novel, by Gore Vidal.

Just settling into this book.
Any recommendations or
otherwise in this forum?

Clivedurdle · 03-28-2007, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Vidal ends his novel with this:

April 1959 - 6 January 1964, Rome

This is a reference, I am sure, to the period during which he wrote it. It is also a reference to the dating of Julian's journal entries. But I believe this date range, specifically its terminus, serves another, typically subtle, purpose. It is a reference to another historical leader; one who strove to reinvigorate a faded empire, one who inspired similar division in his country, and one who met a similar, tragic end. I believe that this book is a farewell of sorts to John F. Kennedy

A reviewer notes would we have xianity now if he had lived and that this religion was very new! Another book goes on the pile!

Clivedurdle · 04-06-2007, 03:28 AM

P 83 onwards has the most wondrous dissection and destruction of xianity I have read! It is when Julian meets Maximus, I assume this is Vidal's rendering of a written record?

Quote:

Thou shalt not revile the gods

Vidal states that is from Exodus. Is that correct?

The discussion continues

Quote:

But according to Moses, he did not make darkness or even matter, since the earth was already there before him, invisible and without form. He was merely the shaper of what already existed. Does one not prefer Plato's god who caused the universe to come "into being as a living creature..."

Quote:

despite the efforts of the extraordinary Paul of Tarsus, who tried to prove that the tribal god of the Jews was the universal One God, even though every word Paul says is contradicted by the Jewish holy book.

Quote:

With the worship of the dead Jew, the poetry ceased

Quote:

there is nothing sacred to us that the Galileans have not stolen. The main task of their innumerable councils is to try to make sense of all their borrowings. I don't envy them

Quote:

No one can tell another man what is true. Truth is all around us. But each must find it in his own way.

Bring back the Mithraic cult and the worship of the sun!

GrandpaMithras · 04-06-2007, 01:22 PM

Yes, let it be such.

Clivedurdle · 04-06-2007, 03:17 PM

Actually, thinking about it, what are the roots of that ritual, what is it, the bbq, and sitting in a garden in the sunshine?

Clivedurdle · 04-07-2007, 03:59 AM

My Uncle, very senior in CBN and the pentecostal movement, called their youngest child - Julian!

Joan of Bark · 04-07-2007, 04:01 AM

Gore Vidal is a brilliant writer and thinker. If you are looking for other works by this iconoclastic atheist, I would recommend Kalki, Lincoln and Creation.

esprits4 · 04-07-2007, 04:25 AM

Yes! His essay collections are also required reading. He is a National (International!) Treasure.

Clivedurdle · 04-07-2007, 08:05 AM

There is a fascinating line about the Galileans (can we use that term here?) destroying all the evidence for Jesus as it was too embarrassing!

Clivedurdle · 04-08-2007, 10:28 AM

P376

Quote:

"We may sacrifice in only one place Augustus. At the temple in Jerusalem."

"But that temple has been destroyed."

"So we no longer make sacrifice."

"But if the temple were rebuilt?"

.....They hate the Jews...because they realise that the Jews know better than anyone what perfect nonsense the whole Christian mishmash is.....

Julian sent Alypius to Jerusalem to rebuild the temple. He had carte blanche....Then the famous "miracle" happened...balls of flame flared aamong the stones....Alypius later discovered the Galileans had placed buckets of naphtha in the ruins..

How many other times has history been created by the victors?

03-27-2007, 04:19 PM	#1
mountainman Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Falls Creek, Oz. Posts: 11,192	Julian - Gore Vidal's novel (1962) JULIAN (or via: amazon.co.uk) - A Novel, by Gore Vidal. Just settling into this book. Any recommendations or otherwise in this forum?

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04-06-2007, 01:22 PM	#4
GrandpaMithras Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 1,781	Yes, let it be such.

04-06-2007, 03:17 PM	#5
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Actually, thinking about it, what are the roots of that ritual, what is it, the bbq, and sitting in a garden in the sunshine?

04-07-2007, 03:59 AM	#6
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	My Uncle, very senior in CBN and the pentecostal movement, called their youngest child - Julian!

04-07-2007, 04:01 AM	#7
Joan of Bark Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pua, in northern Thailand Posts: 2,823	Gore Vidal is a brilliant writer and thinker. If you are looking for other works by this iconoclastic atheist, I would recommend Kalki, Lincoln and Creation.

04-07-2007, 04:25 AM	#8
esprits4 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota, USA Posts: 63	Yes! His essay collections are also required reading. He is a National (International!) Treasure.

04-07-2007, 08:05 AM	#9
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	There is a fascinating line about the Galileans (can we use that term here?) destroying all the evidence for Jesus as it was too embarrassing!

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