the_cave

I don't know any atheists who belong to it either (nor have I ever heard of it), and I do know some atheists.

Personally, it seems to me that church and state are currently fairly separate, and despite some fear-mongering among activist Democrats, I don't think the situation is likely to change dramatically anytime soon--changes suggested by conservative Republicans are largely political posturing--or else they do not in fact violate church-state separation. Therefore, I see little need to advocate for church-state separation, since it already exists, though if I'm discussing it with others (such as I am now) I will advocate for it (such as I am doing so now.)

sharon45

Another example of jesus again, just speaking his own opinion. This is a mistake in the NT because everything on earth is of a concern with god, afterall, as written, he did create and watches over it all.

braces_for_impact

Well thanks for answering the_cave. I think, despite earlier claims that Christians absolutely should answer the question. They should know if anyone should.

Thus far we have a Christian stating that in their opinion, the current wall between church and state is strong and therefore activism on his (or her) part is not required. But, if the wall were to weaken, she would help all those who were like minded to keep that wall strengthened. I don't wish to speak for you the_cave, so please correct me if you feel I misstated your position.

That being said, I dissagree on the status of our church/state wall, but as that's somewhat of a different issue I won't get into that.

I wonder. If blacks could not get voted into office would liberal Christians stand up and be heard?

Since it's political suicide to to proclaim oneself as atheist, why would you not make yourself be heard on that issue? It's obvious atheists cannot be elected into office. Could it be simply because you don't want an atheist in office? What's the difference between a black person who can't get into office and an atheist that cannot?

Thoughts?

sharon45

As I've pointed out elsewhere before, what is so deemed as 'fundamentalist' are just those trying to 'more closely follow' what the NT asks of christians, what jesus asked of christians.

Also pointed out earlier, since there is really no clear enough idea of what a christian should be or follow, the 'liberal christian' ends up being more in this area, confusion, so there isn't so much a need for a truly clear united stance between them all.

Calzaer

It's funny, I was talking about this just the other day with President Gore!



Still see no evidence. Not that I'm ever surprised.

sharon45

Stop talking so vain like you are really saving anyone, like anyone that isn't a christian or fundamentalist needs to be saved as though we are victims or children, something, whether for an atheist or from another religion. America being a 'christian' country, is as ignorant and hateful a statement as america being a 'white' country as well. Many races and beliefs built and continue to run america. Christians, liberal or not, asking for 'much needed respect' is laughable in comparison with all the 'still unknown' millions who are by far not christian, and 'pull their own weight' and then some to help this country. Instead, because there are so many christians, thats about all that is heard, christians, 'patting themselves on the back', not realizing enough of how many of others make up this country.

Rational BAC

I guess it did sound a little vain and it probably was. I just got a little pissed that much of the first part of this thread was a lot of pussy footing around apologetics for liberal and mainstream Christians just "not doing enough" for atheists. Failing miserably in our duties so to speak.

Well boo hoo.

I just wanted to hit you with the truth. Which most of you don't seem to realize. ---

We don't really care. We don't really care all that much about whether "under God" is in the pledge or not. We don't really care whether "In God We Trust" is on our money or not. We don't really care if some ding a ling judge somewhere wants a big rock with the 10 commandments on it. We don't care if there happens to be a manger scene somewhere on public property around Christmas time. That is all picayune stuff. If you are so interested in little things like that, then you do that fight and leave us alone.

We think we do enough just by our sheer numbers in watching our own backs concerning important separation of Church and State issues if and when they arise and as a side effect watching yours too. The USA will never become anything resembling a theocracy. Mainstream Christianity will never let it happen.

Starboy

I believe you. And when our president gets us deeper into a religious war all the while spouting things like crusade and god is on our side and all the other religious nonsense he spouts that basically paints a target on the back of every American I suspect that most Christians will also not care. I expect them to cheer the president on. After all they are Christians.

Starboy

Biff the unclean

Oh, we knew that already. Liberal Christians are hypocrites and they enjoy being hypocrites. They don't have liberal values at all, they just think it's fashionable.

sharon45

Again, vainity, where is it that you get the idea that you even speak for a small percentage of this 'majority' 'liberal christian' besides just thinking you do? You just wanted to 'hit' with your opinions, these are by far not having to represent anywhere near the real truth. You are also ever to show some proof of any of this grand talk besides wishful thinking.

Americans should care about all these 'little' things of religion sneaking into government, because it's in blatant contradiction with the constitution. If a lie is told enough it can become the truth(religions prove this), and even what seems like little lies right now, with enough of them, they amount to a huge force. I already know it's not my fight, because my fight is a lost and dead issue, I'm just saying it's america's fight, if they really believe in their country as they claim to.
This is just a hope of yours, it in no ways has to be or remain a reality. Taking something so much for granted, is exactly how so many completely out of control issues arise.