sotto voce

Can we see these parts identified?

stephan huller

http://books.google.com/books?id=OAG...0Peter&f=false

See also Boring's book on 1 Peter (pp. 31-32)

stephan huller

Another example of the possible existence of some source which blended 1 Cor 13 and 1 Peter 4:8:

stephan huller

When speaking of Pauline parallels of 1 Peter let's not forget Romans 4:7,8:

Paul was interested in this passage but the saying appears in 1 Peter 4:8

sotto voce

No, we can't.

Roger Pearse

I was unclear why anyone has to produce evidence that two people who learned Latin at their mother's knee, who spoke it every day, who lived in Rome, who held magistracies in that city, in fact wrote their works in their native language. Sorry, but if we wish to say that they wrote in Greek, Persian, Old Coptic, Ethiopian, or Martian, our first port of call is to ask for some evidence that they did, surely?

To verify whether the works are translations from Greek should be simple, if your language skills are up to it. You would look for evidence of idioms particular to the language in question, being rendered (doubtless awkwardly) into Latin. If you look at the "Attic Nights" of Aulus Gellius, you will find the problems of translation from Greek into Latin covered in some detail by an author living only a little later. In particular he discusses how Ennius and Naevius fared, translating Greek dramatic works.

Good luck!

Roger Pearse

stephan huller

Hey sotto

http://books.google.com/books?id=OAG...0Peter&f=false

See also Boring's book on 1 Peter (pp. 31-32)

Roger Pearse

No. Some notes from T&T:

The manuscript is New York, Pierpont Morgan Library M.462, written in Italy towards the end of the 5th century... it now contains only Letters books 2.20-3.5, plus one of the indices (to book 3) which are a special feature of the 10 book family. It reached France fairly early, as its earliest descendants were written there; by the 14th century it was in Meaux, and in the library of Saint-Victor in Paris in the 15th century, where it was foliated and described by the librarian Claude de Grandrue. A 9th century copy of the whole, plus the Natural History of Pliny the Elder, is now Florence Laurentianus Ashburnham 98, written at Auxerre and once the property of Beauvais cathedral. The NH was detached and is now Florence, Bibl. Ricc. 488; the gatherings containing the latter letters are lost, so the ms. today stops at book 5, letter 6, in mid-letter.

There is no indication what what Grandrue says, or where we might find out. Nor is there useful indication on how we know what the Florence ms. originally contained.

You mean 10th book, I presume.

All the best,

Roger Pearse
UPDATE: A search for Claude de Grandrue reveals that he compiled a catalogue of the library of Saint-Victor in 1514. This has been edited by Veronica von Buren in 1983. A review of the project is on Persee here. Wish there was some way to look at it.

sotto voce

Links are for verification of what one can see.

Vorkosigan

Thanks....