RussianM3_dude

Methinks hystorically it was the Christians who were first to prosecute and ask questions later (if at all)

"Kill them all, let god sort them out."

Clivedurdle

I would go strongly with urban myth! Since when would country oiks have very high technology like glasses darkly - early magnification I assume? Archimedes several hundred years before had been burning ships with mirrors, that lighthouse definitely was using glass!

fromdownunder

OK, this is a reasonable start. Please name and provide sources for the secular documents that you claim provide evidence for Jesus resurrection. Then we will have something to talk about.

That is what the Board is for.

Norm

MOTG

I first state it, then I can show it. I would not want to be blamed for posting too long a post now would I? Already the post I feel is going to be too long and I have not given you the tonnes of quotes of first century writers and eyewitnesses.

Matthew, John, and Peter were eyewitnesses (original apostles) and recorded this event. Jude was the brother of Christ and recorded his findings. Others did the same such as Luke and Paul. Paul said he saw Jesus resurrected; Luke is as close as you can get to being a first hand account. Mark is also believed to be an eyewitness as there is a specific verse indicated he was at the event of one of Christ's talks. And Roman sources and Jewish sources also record this event of his death. So you have lots of sources recording this event of the historical Jesus in the first century. Many are recording this event who lived at that time, so are they all wrong or lying? It doesn't seem likely, so that takes care of (1)-they even were killed for saying they say Jesus resurrected; they were with him for three and a half years of His ministry too. Sources and quotes are forthcoming in due time.

YHWH is proven by the fact that you did not create yourself, you did not happen all by yourself, but were created. This is Yahweh in agreement with the nature of the being of God who would be righteous and holy as exhibited through Christ, and none can compare to Christ in what He did and performed and said, fulfilling over 60 prophecies which is impossible by man's standards.

This same truth teaches us that the Devil exists, that the reason why man sinned was because he was tempted, not by God (for that would be unrighteous and unholy), but was a predecessor to Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve were the first God-conscious people. God through the Bible describes what happened to Satan millions or billions of years ago and why he fell out of 3rd heaven as a most beautiful angel now eternally separated from God, and why God had to make the earth desolate and waste in Gen. 1.2 because of his sin and bringing 1/3 of the fallen angels with him after he corrupted the beings that then turned into demons, now disembodied spirits. One of those spirits went into the serpent to tempt Eve. And the Bible says that evil spirit is in your spirit right now though you are a dullard unable to realize it.

MOTG

See, no luck needed, just pure truth.

pharoah

So what, the Koran makes the same claim. Does that make it true?

You mean that an omnipotent God CAN'T annihilate a soul? How do you explain that?

How do you explain Satan in Job freely trotting back and forth between heaven and earth then?

Hmm, so a kid who dies one day past the "age of accountability" as a sinner will taste the fires of hell forever because he chose it, eh? Or some poor African farmer who never heard of sin and Jesus will be tormented forever, because he can't "go where you're going?"

We're still awaiting proof of any of these claims.

Actually we don't have not one solid, secure fact about Jesus. We don't know when he lived, who his parents were, what he said or did, or when or how he died. The Biblical accounts are so tainted with legendary material that it's impossible to separate wheat from chaff.

Oh really? What are these documents?

I'm not sure where your information is coming from, but it's clearly false. You can prove me wrong however by providing citations from these 12 secular documents that back up your claim.

Actually what I expect from an omnipotent deity are the original documents themselves, free of errors and contradictions.

pharoah

You call asking that you abide by the rules of the forum persecution? :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

Would the Christian Internet forums be persecuting a Moslem if they locked a thread that started with him preaching about Mohammed and Allah? Would they be persecuting a pagan that preached about Zeus or witchcraft?

fromdownunder

For the second time, please cite sources, or I must assume you are simply making this all up as you go along. You initially claimed 12 secular sources for Jesus death and resurrection. You have not yet even shown us one. If you are simply going to continue along these sort of lines without actually citing documents, you might as well be Troy for all the discussion you are likely to contribute.

Norm

gregor

I guess a vacation bible school task was to go out and preach at IIDB.

Please try to keep the ramble self consistent, at least in each post.

Celine

MOTG,
Think of terminology as simply as you can:
Preaching is the antithesis of discussion or argument.
In preaching, one person basically brays away like a sheep, and the other sheep sit there silently, nodding or perhaps at most, murmering an occasional "baaaaaa."
In disucssionl, or esp. in formal argument, other people get to speak, to contest each other's statements, and so on.
This leads to something remarkable in itself: each person has to support what he/she says, with facts, verifiable (expert) testimony, and so on.

Now, which method are you recommending?