James T

Chaupoline ... a crutch in regard to: -

1/ We are insignificant in our occupation and effect on the universe, choosing to believe that a god has some special concern for us is a weakness.

2/ We have minds capable of thought and understanding, choosing to let gods' chosen representatives :Cheeky: dictate our thoughts and beliefs is a weakness.

3/ We are capable of great harm and good to both ourselves and to others, choosing not to accept responsibility for our own choices and actions, attributing these instead to a god is a weakness.

Chaupoline

I am not insignifigant. I am me. Whether God has a special concern for me or not is not going to change the fact that I wake up every morning and go to work.

Did you even read what I wrote. I highly doubt that God's chosen representatives would include Plato, Mark Twain, and Matt Stone and Trey Parker. I dictate my own thoughts and beliefs.

I accept responsiblility for my own actions. Good or bad I am me. I hope to become better than I am now though in the future. I am still trying to work out what is Absolute Truth and Morality. I am still trying to work out what God and Jesus meant. All that I could come up with so far is treat other people with respect and tolerance. If everyone would do this then life would be paradise. I understand that not everyone believes as I do and I can see why you would make these assumptions. I just don't believe that a belief in God is idiotic, I believe that a belief in man is idiotic.

James T

I've read and reread and you'll have to clarify this directly.

From rereading
Well actually if you follow Karl Popper's interpretation of the difference between science and not-science as falsifiability then it could be argued that it does.
So belief in yourself is idiotic. Hmmm, what I said was belief in god was a weakness and, on your request, I explained why.

I don't consider I am me as a particularly good defence against my position that we are insignificant. I consider my own self very significant to me but I do not consider that my existence or otherwise is even particularly significant in the context of human life. How many of the billions even know I exist let alone care.

This gets worse when you consider that over time the likelihood the humans as a race will die out well before any of the other esoteric forms of stellar catastrophe have an opportunity to do the job for us has to be high. And after this happens, even the messes we make in our own solar system will fade.

What I consider courage is to accept and recognise these likelihoods and still make a good life for ourselves and our neighbours.

Chaupoline

I believe in myself. I have a problem believing fully in other people. I take what they have said and then try to make value out of it. To test my theories I will then talk with other people and bounce my ideas off of them.

Everything that we do has consequences that affect other people and the world. I may not be known by the world yet, but my existance has affected other people. The same as yours. You just may not realize it yet.

I do not believe that humanity will have an ending, this is just speculation on your part.

This sounds like a good plan. How can a belief in a God prevent you from having a good life for yourself and your neighbors?

James T

I think I've made my point here. You really don't want to accept the insignificance of your existence. This was a reason I gave for belief in god being a weakness.

Yes, I agree with that, but I said on the universe and you haven't directly addressed my point.
No, that humanity will have an ending is not speculation. That we would manage an ending prior to a stellar catastrophy was however speculation.
It doesn't. Nor does belief in a god enforce it, have the courage to do it yourself without this crutch, is what I say.

Chaupoline

You can blame it on my narcissism, not my faith.

Give me a chance. First I will be global, then universal.

That is up for debate with science fiction writers. A belief in God does not sway the outcome.

I agree with you. It doesn't matter if you believe in God or not, you will still try to have a good life for yourself and your neighbors, even if you are a depressed, freethinker with feelings of inadequacies who believes that the Earth is going to be destroyed eventually. I sure am glad I have this crutch though, the alternatives seem really bad. :thumbs:

"Who's next, who wants to take a shot at Deebo!"

JPD

Another reason to not believe in your God, as if one was needed.



As opposed to someone who wears rose-tinted glasses, thinks in a limited fashion, feels that the answers they have provided themselves with are adequate (and have equipped themselves with the rationale to support it), and who believes that the earth is going to be here forever even if they won't.

I am sure glad that I don't need a crutch because the alternative would require that I perform a lobotomy on myself.

It is also evident that you do not understand what depression is or else you would not use it in such a flippant way. I haven't suffered from it myself but I wouldn't joke about it.

funinspace

Cool enough...

Chaupoline

I don't understand where you are going with this. Are you angry because you can't get the winning lottery numbers by calling the Jesus hotline? People make their own way in the world. With or without a belief in God you still need to go to work.

You have just described an atheist who lives in the apartment below mine. She seems to always be smoking pot and hanging out at coffee shops.

I'm surprised that you haven't figured it out yet. There is no crutch. Now I know that there are people out there who are bandwagon flunkies and just want to be accepted by a group, any group that feels that they are in the know. These jackasses are just as likely to jump on the atheistic laughtrack as well as any other flavor of the month. You can spot them right off. They never read up on anything. They just repeat the same shit that they hear from some other jackass. This fits many religious people, but it doesn't apply to me, so therefore it isn't a pre-requisite for faith.

I finally agree with you on this one. I do not respect depression.

JPD

Chaupoline, it would appear that we agree on a number of issues. I don't agree that there is no crutch however. I am intrigued to know what your faith means though. I can't tell from your personal profile.