Horatio Parker

I think the crucifixion is appealing because it's a very rich symbol.

Suffering on the cross is something anyone can relate to. We suffer here at the intersection of the material and spiritual worlds.

A cross(the equilateral one) is a mandela. It's also a quartenary, four being the Pythagorean number of perfection.

And Jesus is a simultaneously a sacrifice, a hero and a dying and rising God.

I think it could be argued that the triumph of the resurrection is underscored or heightened by the degradation of crucifixion; the lowest low to the highest high.

archibald

It's a good job Jesus wasn't executed in Texas in the 1920's. Think what Christians would have to wear around their necks in that case.

Horatio Parker

A lightening flash would be a cool symbol; turn on to Jesus. Or would that be too Olympian.

I don't know what Jung would say.

JonA

It's easy, of course, to make all these claims some two thousand years after the fact.

Jon

Horatio Parker

Maybe if psychology and symbolism were better understood in the ancient world, they would have.

aa5874

Please examine the gMark, even before Jesus was crucified the disciples had Betrayed, Abandoned and Denied him. A follower of Jesus FLED NAKED when an attempt was made to apprehend him.

The Arrest and Crucifixion of Jesus had ZERO appeal to the very disciples and THREE days later the visitors FLED DUMBSTRUCK from the Empty Tomb.

Please read the story in gMark and do NOT speculate.

If we wanted to know what Superman did we MUST at least read the comic books of Superman--we cannot speculate.

We cannot speculate even about "Harry Potter" a Fiction book.

We have gMark, please read it.

The crucifixion had very little appeal to Jesus himself even in the gMark story.

Mark 14:36 - After Jesus was arrested and crucified in gMark there was utter devastation.

Horatio Parker

I think you're confusing characters in the story with the effect of the story on the reader.

For all your posting and emphasis on MJ, I don't think you appreciate what a myth is.

Wrong. Speculation is precisely why people enjoy reading these things; they enjoy imagining themselves participating in the story. "If I were Superman..."

I have, but I don't interpret it as literally as you do.

You have some good insights on the text, but when it comes to theology you need to widen your focus. A lot.

Again, you confuse the characters with the readers.

The readers need to understand the depth and the drama, the enormity of what Jesus is facing.

Have you never read Euripedes or Sophocles? or Homer?

And then what happened, after the devastation?

I think you need a little less scripture and little more Lit 101.

aa5874

No. You are confusing what you have speculated with what is ACTUALLY found in gMark.

Again, you admit you are speculating so you really don't need to even read gMark.

I am NOT here to speculate on BC&H.

The OP is titled "Shameful crucifixion, therefore true".

In the gMark story, a character called Jesus was crucified but hours EARLIER his disciples had ALREADY BETRAYED, ABANDONED and DENIED him.

I am NOT speculating.

These are LAST words of Peter in gMark 14.71It is IMPERATIVE that we READ gMark and NOT speculate.

Peter was WAS Cursing and Swearing that he did NOT know Jesus EVEN BEFORE he was crucified.

The author of gMark has written a story where his main character Jesus was totally REJECTED by the Jews and his OWN disciples.

The many supposed FANTASTIC Miracles, the feeding of thousands in Galilee, the Instant healing of incurable diseases, the raising of the dead, and the walking on the sea and transfiguring did NOT help Jesus.

ALL the Embellishments of Jesus did NOT prevent the Jews and his own disciples from REJECTING him.

gMark is NOT about Salvation by the crucifixion.

gMark is about the BETRAYAL, ABANDONMENT, DENIAL and REJECTION of Jesus when he was Arrested and Crucified.

What happened to Superman? I have NOT heard much about him these days.

And Harry Potter? Is he dead?

What happened to Robin Hood?

All I know is that in gMark there is a story where the Jews and the disciples of Jesus REJECTED him and Later the very Jews had him CRUCIFIED.

Based on gMark Jesus did NOT even start any new religion under the name of Christ and there was another person who was called Christ.

Horatio Parker

You remind me of the nuns in catechism.

True. And irrelevant.

aa5874

But, what do you remind me of?

I am really amazed how people here seem offended when they are challenged.

The OP is titled "Shameful crucifixion, therefore true.

We MUST be familiar with the Jesus stories to make any meaningful contribution to the thread. Speculation is just a waste of time.

Let us deal with gMark which is considered the earliest Gospel in the Canon.

What is the significance of the crucifixion in the gMark story?

In gMark, Jesus TAUGHT his disciples that he would be killed and be resurrected on the THIRD day. There is NO statement from Jesus that he would be the END of the Law or that he would REPLACE the Laws of Moses for Remission of Sins.

In fact, in gMark Jesus did REQUEST that people ADHERE to the LAWS as commanded by Moses.

Mark 1.44 In all of gMark, there is NO statement that the crucifixion would make Jewish Laws obsolete.

But in gMark, before Jesus there was John the Baptist who baptized for the Remission of Sins which made the Laws of Moses for remission of sin obsolete before Jesus was even crucified.

MARK 1 4-5 In gMark, the crucifixion did NOT signify Salvation it Signified REJECTION.