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Old 07-17-2008, 01:41 PM   #11
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As I understand it, the Egyptians were excellent record keepers. Wouldn't the death of the entire population's firstborn children and the destruction of one of their armies be the type of thing they'd want to make a note of?
[Laughs] Right. The Egyptians were excellent record keepers and the writers of the Bible were Bronze age goat herders on dope, right?
Actually, there are some researchers that say the dope idea could be the explanation for most of the stories in the bible...

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...the psychedelic effects of ayahuasca were comparable to those produced by concoctions based on bark of the acacia tree, that is frequently mentioned in the Bible.
http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=69048

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A researcher at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem claims in a recent study that mind-altering substances were regularly used during religious rites from biblical times performed by Israelites. Professor Benny Shanon said of Moses on Mt. Sinai:

"It was either a supernatural cosmic event, which I don't believe, or a legend, which I don't believe either, or finally, and this is very probable, an event that joined Moses and the people of Israel under the effect of narcotics."

Shanon, who admits using ayahuasca, an Amazonian religious drug, has effects akin to acacia tree bark mentioned by the Bible. He said the "burning bush" was likely a hallucination. "The Bible says people see sounds, and that is a classic phenomenon."
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Old 07-17-2008, 01:44 PM   #12
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It is a political issue with Skeptics not an historical or religious one. Muslims and Christians are on the political agenda, not just anyone who believes in fairy tales. The Native American isn't in the political sights of the skeptic, only those who pose a political threat.
Please explain why you believe this to be true.

I don't see any native american's trying to force their silly religious customs on the rest of the nation the way xians and muslims are doing. They pretty much mind their own business. Is this practice that I find offensive.
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Old 07-17-2008, 03:20 PM   #13
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Now typically the Bible isn't taken as seriously as secular histories ...

You can't argue that the Bible is of a supposed supernatural order when it is often the same for other secular histories.
I think you will find that modern historians are skeptical of all ancient historical documents.

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It is a political issue with Skeptics not an historical or religious one. Muslims and Christians are on the political agenda, not just anyone who believes in fairy tales. The Native American isn't in the political sights of the skeptic, only those who pose a political threat.
Not quite true - check out the recent case of Kensington man.
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Old 07-17-2008, 07:28 PM   #14
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Here's the book you want to start with: The Bible Unearthed.
Thanks for the suggestion. I had, indeed, read a few reviews and snippet of excerpts from the aforementioned book but never became ardently gravitated to give it a chance. From what I had gathered, the book precisely conveys the same message that you convened in addition to several interesting "similarities" among Egyptian history and Biblical event of Israelites and Moses. For instance:

The expulsion of the Hyksos from Egypt, Invaders who came either though a preconceived dynasty or gradual settlement in Egypt and ruled in middle Egypt but ultimately removed around 17th century BC. It's said they they indeed had some names identical to Israelite traditions.

Interestingly enough, there was a Pharaoh name "Ah-mose I" who drove Hyksos out and even restored some ruling outside of African in Cannon (in addition to extension of Egyptian borders to south at Nubia).

I don't know how much about a roll "Thutmose I" played in the whole picture but he indeed quashed some of the supposed rebellion and loosely coupled nomadic invaders, referred to as Hapiru, who are thought to formed a federated band out of tribes of Israel.
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Old 07-17-2008, 08:08 PM   #15
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Here are some things to consider. Just for consideration.

Hecataeus of Abdera, Manetho the Egyptian historian, Lysimachus of Alexandria, Eupolemus, Tacitus and Jevenal all acknowledge Moses as the writer of the code of laws of the Jews. Numenius the Pythagorean plilosopher mentions Jannes and Jambres as the Egyptian priests who withstood Moses. From the time of Alexander to the Emperor Aurelian many ancient writers mention Moses as leader, ruler and lawgiver.
With all do respect, every single of those historians came almost a millennium after the supposed arrival of Moses. Hecataeus (400th-300th BC), Manetho (300 century) and he covered a wide range of dynasties, Lysimachus (late 200BC), Eupolemus (mid 100BC) and was a Jewish historian (go figure), Tacitus (100+ AC), Numenius (200 BC) and didn't he believe Plato was the Moses!

As it has been said, speaking on the "established" traditions of Judaism by the time of their conscription does not help the veracity of their work. Jewish tribes had already marked their presence in lands governed by Egypt; and this was occurring at the time of 26th dynasty or perhaps 5th-6th century BC. This is awfully starting to resemble the work of Tacitus and Josephus and their accounts of early Christianity with each superficially mentioning how some band of religious people -- which by the way, there were hundreds of small "religion" sects popping up at the time to fill-in the void created by the expulsion of Jews by the Romans and who he referred to as Christians without any reference to Jesus -- were suffered death by the sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilate. At least, in my book, Tacitus and Josephus had the ink dried on their paper 100 years after Jesus' birth but all the discussed historians wrote about Moses almost more than 1000 years later.


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Keep in mind that skeptics once argued that Babylonian King Belshazzar, Assyrian King Sargon and Pontus Pilate were myths until archaeology later confirmed their historicity.
I don't know how many fallacies you violated in this short paragraph but I am just going to leave there.
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Old 07-17-2008, 08:15 PM   #16
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Here are some things to consider. Just for consideration.

Hecataeus of Abdera, Manetho the Egyptian historian, Lysimachus of Alexandria, Eupolemus, Tacitus and Jevenal all acknowledge Moses as the writer of the code of laws of the Jews. Numenius the Pythagorean plilosopher mentions Jannes and Jambres as the Egyptian priests who withstood Moses. From the time of Alexander to the Emperor Aurelian many ancient writers mention Moses as leader, ruler and lawgiver.
They also acknowledge Romulus and Remus as the founders of Rome, Hercules as the son of a god, Homer as a Greek chronicler, Mithras being born in a cave, etc....
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