Freethought & Rationalism Archive

teknoise · 05-11-2006, 11:08 AM

A couple points here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse Leigh

While the Bible declares inarguably that, "God is Love," Ezekiel also tells us that the four *dominant* attributes of God are, Justice, Wisdom, Power, and Mercy.

So you are arguing that though an attribute of God is love, he does not always have to act in love? He can interchange between attributes? He can drop his love and pick up power for example?

Doesn't sound like He's full of love too often then.

Also, looking at the above scripture quotes, what attribute would you paste on God? Justice, Wisdom, Power, or Mercy in this situation.

It is not just to send innocent people to their deaths.
It is not just to give everyone the sae penalty for varying degrees of "sin".
I suppose one could be wise and a tyrant, though.
As for mercy, well... those quotes speak for themselves on that attribute.

So maybe He is just power hungry!

Quote:

We also know that God extends "Grace" on a daily basis to humans.

We all know? Well, I for one don't know.

Quote:

He is not any one "Essence," as you put it, but if He were to have a main one, according to our Lord Jesus, then it *would* be Love.

Any evidence of this?

Quote:

As far as deserving the "death sentence," all of us do. Anything we do that is outside of the Will of God in thought, word, or deed is deemed to be "sin." The penalty for sin=death. I guarantee there is no one on earth who has reached "the age of reason/understanding" never mind on this forum who has not *earned* the death penalty.

Do you have scriptural support for this made-up age of accountability?
What kind of God acts in love, justness, and mercy while creating being He knows fully well to sin, and then punishing them when they sin? If I wrote software that I designed to crash after being open for 5 seconds, I could hardly blame it on anyone but myself.

Quote:

I've probably had several "self"-ish thoughts today unintentionally, but then this is the end of the day for me since I generally work the night shift.

- Jesse.

And these sins of selfish thoughts, in your opinion, carry just as much weight as if you slaughtered and raped a couple folks during your shift?

Quote:

I also think it's beyond audacious to even contemplate judging one's Creator. Kind of like spitting into the wind, as they say, or biting the hand that feeds you. No? (I'm assuming that for debating purposes God is "real" (as in, "exists" ) in this thread, since you're trying to assign Him a less than complimentary attribute...?)

Why shouldn't we question our "creator"? Why give us brains that are capable of something, and then cry blaspheme when we use those brains?

Bboyneko · 05-11-2006, 11:27 AM

Every christian I've thrown 1 Samuel 15 at usually come back with "the babies deserved to die" which is bizarre and frightening.

tonan22 · 05-11-2006, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse Leigh

Humans have no buisiness (not to mention the capability of) judging God. As the Bible points out, He is the Potter and we are (again quite literally) the clay. We are dust, people, and Yahweh is GOD.

I find it amusing that xians are so fond of saying we are God's "dust" and "clay," yet they attack evolution by saying things like "How can you believe we formed from a slimy mass of cells!?!"

TomboyMom · 05-11-2006, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse Leigh

What most of the people on this forum fail to realize is that you (we - *each* of us) have already *earned* a death sentence, and that we all live and breathe by the *Grace* of God quite literally. He can withdraw this Grace at any time and still be perfectly within His Province.

Humans have no buisiness (not to mention the capability of) judging God. As the Bible points out, He is the Potter and we are (again quite literally) the clay. We are dust, people, and Yahweh is GOD. He keeps the universes spiralling and fuels every star, yet still knows every thought each of us have before we have it.

So as I say then, you have no problem with worshipping a baby-murdering genocidal maniac. I guess it beats being killed yourself, which would be the alternative.

Diogenes the Cynic · 05-11-2006, 12:24 PM

Hi, Jesse. I'm somebody else who would like to know what I did to deserve a death sentence.

I also have another question for you. It's pretty simple. Can human beings tell the difference between good and evil. Genesis says that after Adam and Eve ate the fruit they became "as God" and knew right from wrong. Is that true or isn't it?

As you can guess, I have a follow-up question to this but right now, all I want to know is can I tell the difference between right and wrong? Yes or no?

tonan22 · 05-11-2006, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bboyneko

Every christian I've thrown 1 Samuel 15 at usually come back with "the babies deserved to die" which is bizarre and frightening.

I get that one too.

Them: "Well they were doing those babies a favor because by killing them it saved them from growing up in a society that didn't believe in god."

Me: "Uh huh. Why not let them live and just adopt them so that hey could have the greatest gift of all - growing up with god's people?"

Them: blank stare

teknoise · 05-11-2006, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonan22

I find it amusing that xians are so fond of saying we are God's "dust" and "clay," yet they attack evolution by saying things like "How can you believe we formed from a slimy mass of cells!?!"

True. What I usually hear though, is a geneal disgust that we "came from monkeys".

EthnAlln · 05-11-2006, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderlives

Damen und Herren,

I have quoted several verses from the bible showing Yahwehs sanctioning and outright commandments to kill women and children on another forum where a poster has 'promised' a thorough thrashing of my position - point by point, showing either the lack of context or my simple dimness as to the 'true meaning' of those verses.

IOW, some kind of apologetic smackdown.

I offered Hosea 13:16, 2 Kings 2:23, Ezekiel 9:5-7, and 1 Samuel 15:2-3.

I left out the Midianites, my favorite - but that's my bad.
:frown:

Any heads up as to what position he will likely take?

Possibly the Pat Robertson defense: God wanted them all wiped out to keep them from populating Hell with damned souls. (Honestly, I'm not kidding; you can't make that stuff up.)

post tenebras lux · 05-11-2006, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse Leigh

G'morning post tenebras lux!

Learn it. If you want a driver's licence you learn the rules of the road, yes? If you want to live on earth and "in union with Christ and the Father" then you have to know what God's Will is. Hint: The short version can be found at Matthew 22:37-40.

Have a sweet and peaceful day - Jesse.

That's 'all my heart, all my soul, and all my heart', right? Could you kindly explain what that means because it seems nonsensical to me. Also, how does one 'love god'?

Ditto for loving one's neighbour: please explain what is entailed by this commandment. Does it just mean 'don't be a hypocrite' or something more?

EthnAlln · 05-11-2006, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomboyMom

The usual response I have received from the opposition is that God can do what he wants cuz he's God, he can do what he wants with his creation, who are we to question him, and without God there is no moral standard by which to judge him.

Yeah, that's Ockamism. William of Ockham popularized, if he didn't invent, that view. Logically, it's a perfect answer to the problem of evil, although it makes the statement that God is good and merciful and full of loving-kindness utterly meaningless. It solves the problem by defining it out of existence.

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05-11-2006, 11:27 AM	#22
Bboyneko Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Savage, MD Posts: 553	Every christian I've thrown 1 Samuel 15 at usually come back with "the babies deserved to die" which is bizarre and frightening.

05-11-2006, 12:24 PM	#25
Diogenes the Cynic Moderator - Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 4,639	Hi, Jesse. I'm somebody else who would like to know what I did to deserve a death sentence. I also have another question for you. It's pretty simple. Can human beings tell the difference between good and evil. Genesis says that after Adam and Eve ate the fruit they became "as God" and knew right from wrong. Is that true or isn't it? As you can guess, I have a follow-up question to this but right now, all I want to know is can I tell the difference between right and wrong? Yes or no?

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