Freethought & Rationalism Archive

stephan huller · 04-21-2013, 03:07 PM

Here's the part I have difficulties with:

Quote:

μεγαλόδωρος οὖν ὁ τὸ μέγιστον ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν, τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ, ἐπιδιδούς, καὶ μεγαλωφελὴς καὶ φιλάνθρωπος, ὅτι καὶ ἀνθρώπων, ἐξὸν εἶναι κύριον, ἀδελφὸς εἶναι βεβούληται

I struggle with fitting the ἀδελφὸς with the ὅτι καὶ ἀνθρώπων. The French translation of Genoude is notoriously loose:

Quote:

de quelle bienveillance ne fait-il pas preuve envers eux, lui qui, pouvant être leur maître, a mieux aimé se faire homme pour être leur frère, et mourir pour les sauver

Even the German translations are not as literal as the English. What's the most exact translation of the material? Would appreciate it.

stephan huller · 04-21-2013, 03:17 PM

Maybe this is better. I forgot to think of Wood's translation. That's the bad thing with being lazy:

Quote:

For that reason He is represented in the Gospel as afflicted, for He is afflicted on our account and undertakes 'to give His life as a redemption for many.' He alone, He asserts, is the Good Shepherd. He is generous indeed who gives us the greatest thing He has, His own life, and liberal and kind because He willed to be man's brother, though He could have been His Lord; so good that He even died for our sake.

I could never put that Greek into an elegant sentence like this or the French. To me the original is so bare. It's hard to know where to go with it. To my eyes the French and the English translations all fill in a lot of material to make it sensible. But then again I am not a translator. But this makes more sense than the other translation or gives a better sense of the original material than the other one I produced. Of course including the next line in the Instructor:

ὃ δὲ καὶ εἰς τοσοῦτον ἀγαθὸς ὥστε ἡμῶν καὶ ὑπεραποθανεῖν

stephan huller · 04-21-2013, 03:34 PM

So getting back to the OP you don't take εἰσάγεται ἐν to mean 'that Jesus was introduced in the gospel' as Eusebius uses the term:

Quote:

But this Melchizedec is introduced in the Holy Scriptures as a priest of the most high God

οὗτος δὲ εἰσάγεται ἐν τοῖς ἱεροῖς λόγοις ὁ Μελχισεδὲκ ἱερεὺς τοῦ θεοῦ τοῦ ὑψίστου [Church History 1.3.17]

Why is that an incorrect interpreting the material?

stephan huller · 04-21-2013, 08:56 PM

So if the text in fact says that Jesus "is introduced in the Gospel 'wearied,' the one who toiled for us, and promising "to give His life a ransom for many." What gospel is this that Clement is referencing? What gospel introduces Jesus as toiling for us, promising to give his life as a ransom for many? Mark 10:45 is often connected with Isa 53:10 but that leads us nowhere. Unless someone else can see something I don't see.

The only connection I can make is Clement's reference to the beginning of the gospel apparently Luke:

Quote:

And to prove that this is true, it is written in the Gospel by Luke as follows: "And in the fifteenth year, in the reign of Tiberius Caesar, the word of the Lord came to John, the son of Zacharias." And again in the same book: "And Jesus was coming to His baptism, being about thirty years old," and so on. And that it was necessary for Him to preach only a year, this also is written: "He hath sent Me to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord."

λυτρον, which occurs nowhere else in the New Testament and twenty times in the LXX, refers exclusively to various temporal fees: fines for injuries (those caused by livestock, twice noted in Ex. 21:30; disallowed in cases of murder, Num. 35:31-32), the census tax (Ex. 30:12; see Matt. 17:24), and the purchase price of slaves (Lev. 19:20; 25:51-52), land after the sabbatical year (Lev. 25:24, 26), and tithed goods (Lev. 27:31). A fee was also charged for those firstborn of Israel who exceeded the number of the Levites (Num. 3:46, 48-49, 51; 18:15), with the Levites themselves serving as the “ransom” for the majority (Num. 3:12, unique to the LXX). http://avtattenai.angelfire.com/reso...m_christum.pdf

The only thing I can think of is that Jesus is introduced in a particular gospel in association with the Jubilee.

stephan huller · 04-21-2013, 08:59 PM

Of course the counter-argument is going to be that this is just a general reference to the theme of salvation in the gospel not to specific statement or scene in the gospel, but I am not so sure.

Jeffrey Gibson · 04-22-2013, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

So if the text in fact says that Jesus "is introduced in the Gospel 'wearied,' the one who toiled for us,

But it doesn't say this.

Quote:

and promising "to give His life a ransom for many." What gospel is this that Clement is referencing? What gospel introduces Jesus as toiling for us, promising to give his life as a ransom for many? Mark 10:45 is often connected with Isa 53:10 but that leads us nowhere. Unless someone else can see something I don't see.

You are missing the serve (minister) rather than being served (minsistered to) in Mk. 10:45 (and Matthew 20:28) Not to mention the passion predictions in Mark which precede the ransom saying and Jesus notice that he has to drink a cup of suffering in Mk. 10:38.

Quote:

The only connection I can make is Clement's reference to the beginning of the gospel apparently Luke:

Quote:

And to prove that this is true, it is written in the Gospel by Luke as follows: "And in the fifteenth year, in the reign of Tiberius Caesar, the word of the Lord came to John, the son of Zacharias." And again in the same book: "And Jesus was coming to His baptism, being about thirty years old," and so on. And that it was necessary for Him to preach only a year, this also is written: "He hath sent Me to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord."

λυτρον, which occurs nowhere else in the New Testament

Really?? Try Mat. 20:28. Also see the use of its cognates in

Lk. 24.21 and 1Peter 1.18. See too 1 Tim. 2:6)

Quote:

Friberg, T., Friberg, B., & Miller, N. F. (2000). Vol. 4: Analytical lexicon of the Greek New Testament. Baker's Greek New Testament library (249). Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Books.

and twenty times in the LXX, refers exclusively to various temporal fees: fines for injuries (those caused by livestock, twice noted in Ex. 21:30; disallowed in cases of murder, Num. 35:31-32), the census tax (Ex. 30:12; see Matt. 17:24), and the purchase price of slaves (Lev. 19:20; 25:51-52), land after the sabbatical year (Lev. 25:24, 26), and tithed goods (Lev. 27:31). A fee was also charged for those firstborn of Israel who exceeded the number of the Levites (Num. 3:46, 48-49, 51; 18:15), with the Levites themselves serving as the “ransom” for the majority (Num. 3:12, unique to the LXX). http://avtattenai.angelfire.com/reso...m_christum.pdf

The only thing I can think of is that Jesus is introduced in a particular gospel in association with the Jubilee.

You really need to consult full lexicons.

Quote:

λύτρον, ου, τό (Pind., Hdt.+; inscr., pap., LXX, Philo, Joseph.) price of release, ransom (esp. also the ransom money for the manumission of slaves, mostly in pl.: Diod. S. 19, 85, 3; Polyaenus 4, 10, 1; POxy. 48, 6 [86 ad]; 49, 8; 722, 30; 40; Mitteis, Chrest. 362, 19; Jos., Ant. 12, 46, but also in sing.: Diod. S. 20, 84, 6 δοῦναι λύτρον; inscr. in KBuresch, Aus Lydien 1898 p. 197; Jos., Ant. 14, 371.—LMitteis, Reichsrecht und Volksrecht 1891, 388; FSteinleitner, Die Beicht ’13, 36ff; 59; 111) give up one’s life λ. ἀντὶ πολλῶν as a ransom for many (s. πολύς I 2aα) Mt 20:28; Mk 10:45 (BBlake, ET 45, ’34, 142; WFHoward, ET 50, ’38, 107-10; JoachJeremias, Judaica 3, ’48, 249-64; ELohse, Märtyrer u. Gottesknecht, ’55, 116-22; CKBarrett, NT Essays: TWManson mem. vol.’59, 1-18 [refers to 2 Macc 7:37].—Cf. Diod. S. 12, 57, 2; Dio Chrys. 64[14], 11 λύτρα διδόναι; Jos., Ant. 14, 107λ. ἀντὶ πάντων; Philo Bybl. in Euseb., Pr. Ev. 1, 16, 44 ἀντὶ τῆς πάντων φθορᾶς. . . λ.). God gave his Son λ. ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν as a ransom for us Dg 9:2 (Lucian, Dial. Deor. 4, 2 κριὸν λύτρον ὑπὲρ ἐμοῦ; schol. on Nicander, Alexiph. 560 λύτρα ὑπὲρ τῶν βοῶν; Philo, Spec. Leg. 2, 122; Jos., Ant. 14, 371λ. ὑπὲρ αὐτοῦ). λ. τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν a ransom for sins B 19:10.—S. on ἀπολύτρωσις, end; also NLevinson, Scottish Journal of Theol. 12, ’59, 277-78; DHill, Gk. Words and Heb. Mngs. ’67, 49-81. M-M.*

λυτρόω (Pla.+) in our lit. only mid. (and pass.) λυτρόομαι (Demosth.+; inscr., pap., LXX, Philo; Joseph.) 1 aor. mid. ἐλυτρωσάμην, imper. λύτρωσαι; 1 aor. pass. ἐλυτρώθην.

1. free by paying a ransom, redeem—a. lit. (Demosth. 19, 170) of prisoners (Diod. S. 5, 17, 3; Jos., Ant. 14, 371)1 Cl 55:2.

b. fig. λύτρωσαι τ. δεσμίους ἡμῶν (in a prayer) 59:4.—Pass. ἀργυρίῳ ἢ χρυσίῳ λυτρωθῆναι ἐκ τῆς ματαίας ἀναστροφῆς be ransomed with silver or gold from the futile way of life 1 Pt 1:18 (on λ. ἔκ τινος s. 2 below.—WCvanUnnik, De verlossing 1 Pt 1:18, 19 en het problem van den 1 Pt ’42).

2. gener. set free, redeem, rescue (Ps.-Callisth. 2, 7, 4 τὴν Ἑλλάδα λυτρώσασθαι; 3, 19, 10; LXX; Philo) τινά someone B 14:8. Of Christ in his coming again λυτρώσεται ἡμᾶς he will redeem us 2 Cl 17:4. Of the Messiah ὁ μέλλων λυτροῦσθαι τὸν Ἰσραήλ Lk 24:21 (cf. Is 44:22-4; 1 Macc 4:11; PsSol 8:30; 9:1). τινὰ ἀπό τινος someone fr. someth. (Ps 118:134; cf. the ancient Christian prayer: CSchmidt, Heinrici-Festschr. ’14, p. 69, 32f) λ. ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ πάσης ἀνομίας Tit 2:14 (Test. Jos. 18:2 ἀπὸ παντὸς κακοῦ). Also τινὰ ἔκ τινος (pagan inscr. in Ramsay, Phrygia II 566f ἐλυτρώσατο πολλοὺς ἐκ κακῶν βασάνων; Dt 13:6; Ps 106:2; Sir 51:2) someone fr. a monster Hv 4, 1, 7. ἐξ ἀναγκῶν m 8:10. ἐκ τοῦ σκότους B 14:5f; cf. 7. ἐκ θανάτου (Hos 13:14) 19:2. τ. ψυχὴν ἐκ θανάτου Ac 28:19 v.l.—Pass. (Aristot., Eth. Nicom. 10, 2 p. 1164b, 34; LXX) be redeemed ἐν τῇ χάριτι by grace IPhld 11:1 (on λ. ἐν cf. 2 Esdr 11 [Neh 1]: 10 ἐν τ. δυνάμει; Ps 76:16; Sir 48:20). M-M.*

λύτρωσις, εως, ἡ (as legal and commercial t.t. in pap.)—1. ransoming, releasing, redemption (Plut., Arat. 11, 2 λ. αἰχμαλώτων; Palaeph. exc. Vat. p. 99, 10; LXX; Test. Jos. 8:1) ποιεῖν λύτρωσιν τῷ λαῷ bring about a deliverance for the people Lk 1:68. προσδέχεσθαι λύτρωσιν Ἰερουσαλήμ wait for the redemption of Jerusalem 2:38; αὒωνία λ. Hb 9:12. διὰ τοῦ αἵματος τοῦ κυρίου λ. ἔσται πᾶσιν τοῖς πιστεύουσιν redemption will come 1 Cl 12:7.

2. abstr. for concr. ransom (-money) δώσεις λ. ἁμαρτιῶν σου you must give a ransom for your sins D 4:6; B 19:10 Funk. M-M.*

λυτρωτής

οῦ, ὁ redeemer (not in secular wr.; LXX of God: Ps 18:15; 77:35) of Moses Ac 7:35. M-M.*

ἀντίλυτρον, ου, τό (Polyaenus, Exc. 52, 7 Melber; Orphica Lithica 593 πάντων ἀ; schol. on Nicander, Alexiph. 560 ἀντ. . . . ὑπὲρ τῶν βοῶν; Origen, Hexapla II 170 Field on Ps 48:9; Hesychius; Cosmas and Damian 40, 30; PLond. 1343, 31 [VIII ad]) ransom ἀ. ὑπὲρ πάντων 1 Ti 2:6 (cf. Mlt. 105; Jos., Ant. 14, 107λύτρον ἀντὶ πάντων).*

Arndt, W., Gingrich, F. W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (1996, c1979). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature : A translation and adaption of the fourth revised and augmented edition of Walter Bauer's Griechisch-deutsches Worterbuch zu den Schrift en des Neuen Testaments und der ubrigen urchristlichen Literatur (482). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

Jeffrey

stephan huller · 04-22-2013, 07:33 AM

I know that Irenaeus connects Mark 10:45 with 10:38 but there is another school of thought. The Marcosians connect the term with a baptism called apolutrosis and Luke 12:50 (and the missing narrative in Secret Mark?). Clement connects the Question of the Rich Man twice with the term via Proverbs 13:8. But I just thought none of these examples fit the idea of Jesus being "introduced in" the gospel this way.

Jeffrey Gibson · 04-22-2013, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

I know that Irenaeus connects Mark 10:45 with 10:38 but there is another school of thought. The Marcosians connect the term with a baptism called apolutrosis and Luke 12:50 (and the missing narrative in Secret Mark?). Clement connects the Question of the Rich Man twice with the term via Proverbs 13:8. But I just thought none of these examples fit the idea of Jesus being "introduced in" the gospel this way.

And just what do you think an ἀπολύτρωσιςis?

Jeffrey

stephan huller · 04-22-2013, 08:14 AM

Well it's a complicated story - one that introduces hobby horses and things that generally annoy people here so I am avoiding doing so. But I'm stuck on the idea of Jesus being 'introduced in' the gospel this way. I don't know what the answer is. Clement is a very cryptic writer. He introduces ideas in ways only the initiated could understand and then leaves them hanging as a kind of lure for people to be intrigued by them. Like a woman dropping hints of attraction but not quite confirming them.

I wish there were more examples of his use of λύτρον but I can only find one in the whole of the Stromata (= Prov 13:8) and then three in the Instructor (the example cited at the beginning, Prov 13:8 and then one more I haven't looked at yet). Maybe I should look at that one.

Jeffrey Gibson · 04-22-2013, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Well it's a complicated story - one that introduces hobby horses and things that generally annoy people here so I am avoiding doing so. But I'm stuck on the idea of Jesus being 'introduced in' the gospel this way.

You still haven't shown that "introduced in" is what the texts says.

Quote:

I don't know what the answer is. Clement is a very cryptic writer. He introduces ideas in ways only the initiated could understand and then leaves them hanging as a kind of lure for people to be intrigued by them. Like a woman dropping hints of attraction but not quite confirming them.

The answer is clear. Jesus is shown from the fisrt to be one who is destined to give his life as a ransom.

Quote:

I wish there were more examples of his use of λύτρον but I can only find one in the whole of the Stromata (= Prov 13:8) and then three in the Instructor (the example cited at the beginning, Prov 13:8 and then one more I haven't looked at yet). Maybe I should look at that one.

Maybe you should learn Greek first and get better research tools.

Jeffrey

*****

Searching in the following:
Clemens Alexandrinus Theol.
Scholia In Clementem Alexandrinum Clemens Alexandrinus Theol., Paedagogus
Book 1, chapter 6, subchapter 49, section 4, line 3

Πάντῃ τοίνυν ἡμεῖς
τὰ πάντα Χριστῷ προσῳκειώμεθα, καὶ εἰς συγγένειαν διὰ τὸ
αἷμα αὐτοῦ, ᾧ λυτρούμεθα, καὶ εἰς συμπάθειαν διὰ τὴν ἀνα-
τροφὴν τὴν ἐκ τοῦ λόγου, καὶ εἰς ἀφθαρσίαν διὰ τὴν ἀγωγὴν
τὴν αὐτοῦ·
τὸ θρέψαι δ' ἐν βροτοῖσι πολλάκις
πλείω πορίζει φίλτρα τοῦ φῦσαι τέκνα.

Clemens Alexandrinus Theol., Paedagogus
Book 1, chapter 9, subchapter 85, section 1, line 4

Διὰ τοῦτο
εἰσάγεται ἐν τῷ εὐαγγελίῳ κεκμηκώς, ὁ κάμνων ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν
καὶ «δοῦναι τὴν ψυχὴν τὴν ἑαυτοῦ λύτρον ἀντὶ πολλῶν»
ὑπισχνούμενος.

Clemens Alexandrinus Theol., Paedagogus
Book 3, chapter 2, subchapter 12, section 5, line 5

Ἐκαλλωπίζετο μυστικῶς ἡ γυνὴ
βασιλεῖ τῷ ἑαυτῆς, ἀλλὰ τὸ κάλλος αὐτῆς ἐκεῖνο λύτρον
εὑρίσκεται φονευομένου λαοῦ.

Clemens Alexandrinus Theol., Paedagogus
Book 3, chapter 7, subchapter 39, section 2, line 5

Χρὴ δὲ τὸν ἀναβαίνειν βιαζόμενον
εἰς τοὺς οὐρανοὺς καλὴν βακτηρίαν τὴν εὐεργεσίαν περιφέρειν
καὶ τοῖς θλιβομένοις μεταδεδωκότα τῆς ἀληθοῦς ἀναπαύ-
σεως μεταλαμβάνειν· ὁμολογεῖ γὰρ ἡ γραφή, ὡς ἄρα
»λύτρον ἐστὶν ἀνδρὸς ψυχῆς ὁ ἴδιος πλοῦτος», τουτέστιν,
ἐὰν πλουτῇ, μεταδόσει σωθήσεται.

Clemens Alexandrinus Theol., Stromata
Book 3, chapter 6, section 55, subsection 1, line 4

ἐπιφέρει δέ· «ἰδοὺ ἀνήρ, ὃς οὐκ ἔδωκεν ἐπὶ τόκῳ τὸ ἀρ-
γύριον αὐτοῦ, ἀποδεκτὸς γίνεται·» καὶ «λύτρον ψυχῆς ἀνδρὸς ὁ
ἴδιος πλοῦτος κρίνεται» οὐχὶ διασαφεῖ ἄντικρυς;

Clemens Alexandrinus Theol., Quis dives salvetur
Chapter 37, section 4, line 2

καὶ
μέλλων σπένδεσθαι καὶ λύτρον ἑαυτὸν ἐπιδιδοὺς καινὴν ἡμῖν δια-
θήκην καταλιμπάνει· «ἀγάπην ὑμῖν δίδωμι τὴν ἐμήν.

Clemens Alexandrinus Theol., Excerpta ex Theodoto
Section 4, extract 78, excerpt 2, line 4

Ἔστιν δὲ οὐ τὸ λουτρὸν μόνον τὸ ἐλευθεροῦν,
ἀλλὰ καὶ ἡ γνῶσις, τίνες ἦμεν, τί γεγόναμεν· ποῦ
ἦμεν, [ἢ] ποῦ ἐνεβλήθημεν· ποῦ σπεύδομεν, πόθεν
λυτρούμεθα· τί γέννησις, τί ἀναγέννησις.

Clemens Alexandrinus Theol., Stromata
Book 1, chapter 21, section 124, subsection 2, line 1

ἐνταῦθα Ζοροβάβελ σοφίᾳ νικήσας τοὺς ἀνταγωνιστὰς τυγχάνει παρὰ
Δαρείου ὠνησάμενος ἀνανέωσιν Ἱερουσαλὴμ καὶ μετὰ Ἔσδρα εἰς τὴν
πατρῴαν γῆν ἀναζεύγνυσι· δι' ὃν γίνεται ἡ ἀπολύτρωσις τοῦ λαοῦ
καὶ ὁ τῶν θεοπνεύστων ἀναγνωρισμὸς καὶ ἀνακαινισμὸς λογίων καὶ
τὸ σωτήριον ἄγεται πάσχα καὶ λύσις ὀθνείας ἐπιγαμβρείας.

Clemens Alexandrinus Theol., Stromata
Book 7, chapter 10, section 56, subsection 4, line 1

αὕτη πρὸς τέλος ἄγει
τὸ ἀτελεύτητον καὶ τέλειον, προδιδάσκουσα τὴν ἐσομένην ἡμῖν κατὰ
τὸν θεὸν μετὰ θεῶν δίαιταν, ἀπολυθέντων ἡμῶν κολάσεως καὶ
τιμωρίας ἁπάσης, ἃς ἐκ τῶν ἁμαρτημάτων εἰς παιδείαν ὑπομένομεν
σωτήριον· μεθ' ἣν ἀπολύτρωσιν τὸ γέρας καὶ αἱ τιμαὶ τελειωθεῖσιν
ἀποδίδονται, πεπαυμένοις μὲν τῆς καθάρσεως, πεπαυμένοις δὲ καὶ
λειτουργίας τῆς ἄλλης, κἂν ἁγία ᾖ καὶ ἐν ἁγίοις· ἔπειτα καθαροὺς
τῇ καρδίᾳ γενομένους κατὰ τὸ προσεχὲς τοῦ κυρίου προσμένει τῇ
θεωρίᾳ τῇ ἀιδίῳ ἀποκατάστασις.

Clemens Alexandrinus Theol., Quis dives salvetur
Chapter 34, section 2, line 2

ἀλλὰ σύ γε μὴ ἐξαπατηθῇς, ὁ γεγευμένος ἀληθείας καὶ κατηξιωμένος
τῆς μεγάλης λυτρώσεως, ἀλλὰ τὸ ἐναντίον τοῖς ἄλλοις ἀνθρώποις
σεαυτῷ κατάλεξον στρατὸν ἄοπλον, ἀπόλεμον, ἀναίμακτον, ἀόργητον,
ἀμίαντον, γέροντας θεοσεβεῖς, ὀρφανοὺς θεοφιλεῖς, χήρας πραότητι
ὡπλισμένας, ἄνδρας ἀγάπῃ κεκοσμημένους.

Clemens Alexandrinus Theol., Quis dives salvetur
Chapter 39, section 1, line 5

μηδὲ γὰρ τοῦτο εἰς ἀπόγνωσίν σοι
καὶ ἀπόνοιαν καταλελείφθω, εἰ καὶ τὸν πλούσιον μάθοις ὅστις ἐστὶν
ὁ χώραν ἐν οὐρανοῖς οὐκ ἔχων καὶ τίνα τρόπον τοῖς οὖσι χρώμενος
ἄν τις τό τε ἐπίρρητον τοῦ πλούτου καὶ χαλεπὸν εἰς ζωὴν δια-
φύγοι καὶ δύναιτο τῶν αἰωνίων [τῶν] ἀγαθῶν ἐπαύρασθαι, εἴη δὲ
τετυχηκὼς ἢ δι' ἄγνοιαν ἢ δι' ἀσθένειαν ἢ περίστασιν ἀκούσιον
μετὰ τὴν σφραγῖδα καὶ τὴν λύτρωσιν περιπετής τισιν ἁμαρτήμασιν
ἢ παραπτώμασιν, ὡς ὑπενηνέχθαι τέλεον, <ὅτι> οὗτος κατεψήφισται
παντάπασιν ὑπὸ τοῦ θεοῦ.

Clemens Alexandrinus Theol., Excerpta ex Theodoto
Section 1, extract 12, excerpt 3, line 4

Καὶ οἱ μὲν Ἄγγελοι νοερὸν πῦρ καὶ πνεύματα
νοερά, τὴν οὐσίαν ἀποκεκαθαρμένοι·
φῶς δὲ νοερὸν ἡ μεγίστη προκοπὴ ἀπὸ τοῦ
νοεροῦ πυρὸς ἀποκεκαθαρμένου τέλεον, «εἰς ἃ
ἐπιθυμοῦσιν ἄγγελοι παρακύψαι», ὁ Πέτρος
φησίν·
ὁ δὲ Υἱὸς ἔτι τούτου καθαρώτερος, «ἀπρόσιτον
Φῶς» καὶ «Δύναμις Θεοῦ», καὶ κατὰ τὸν
Ἀπόστολον «τιμίῳ καὶ ἀμώμῳ καὶ ἀσπίλῳ
αἵματι ἐλυτρώθημεν.

Clemens Alexandrinus Theol., Excerpta ex Theodoto
Section 1, extract 22, excerpt 5, line 2

Διὸ καὶ ἐν τῇ χειροθεσίᾳ λέγουσιν ἐπὶ τέλους·
»εἰς λύτρωσιν ἀγγελικήν», τουτέστιν ἣν καὶ Ἄγγελοι
ἔχουσιν, ἵν' ᾖ βεβαπτισμένος ὁ τὴν λύτρωσιν κομισάμε-
νος τῷ αὐτῷ Ὀνόματι ᾧ καὶ ὁ Ἄγγελος αὐτοῦ
προβεβάπτισται.
Go to Context

Clemens Alexandrinus Theol., Excerpta ex Theodoto
Section 1, extract 22, excerpt 6, line 1

Ἐβαπτίσαντο δὲ ἐν ἀρχῇ οἱ Ἄγγελοι ἐν λυτρώσει τοῦ
Ὀνόματος τοῦ ἐπὶ τὸν Ἰησοῦν ἐν τῇ περιστερᾷ κατελ-
θόντος καὶ λυτρωσαμένου αὐτόν.
Go to Context

Clemens Alexandrinus Theol., Excerpta ex Theodoto
Section 1, extract 22, excerpt 7, line 2

Ἐδέησεν δὲ
λυτρώσεως καὶ τῷ Ἰησοῦ, ἵνα μὴ κατασχεθῇ τῇ
Ἐννοίᾳ ᾗ ἐνετέθη τοῦ ὑστερήματος, προ[ς]ερχόμενος
διὰ τῆς Σοφίας, ὥς φησιν ὁ Θεόδοτος.

Clemens Alexandrinus Theol., Excerpta ex Theodoto
Section 2, extract 35, excerpt 2, line 2

Καὶ αὐτὸς μὲν τὴν
λύτρωσιν, ὡς ἀπὸ Πληρώματος προελθών, εἶχεν·
τοὺς δὲ Ἀγγέλους εἰς διόρθωσιν τοῦ σπέρματος
ἤγαγεν.
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Clemens Alexandrinus Theol., Excerpta ex Theodoto
Section 4, extract 78, excerpt 2, line 4

Ἔστιν δὲ οὐ τὸ λουτρὸν μόνον τὸ ἐλευθεροῦν,
ἀλλὰ καὶ ἡ γνῶσις, τίνες ἦμεν, τί γεγόναμεν· ποῦ
ἦμεν, [ἢ] ποῦ ἐνεβλήθημεν· ποῦ σπεύδομεν, πόθεν
λυτρούμεθα· τί γέννησις, τί ἀναγέννησις.

Clemens Alexandrinus Theol., Protrepticus
Chapter 10, section 107, subsection 3, line 5

Ταύτας, οἶμαι, τὰς θείας
γραφὰς ἐναποσφραγισαμένους χρὴ τῇ ψυχῇ καλὸν ἀφετήριον
σοφίαν ἡγεῖσθαι τοῖς ἐφ' ὁτιοῦν τοῦ βίου τραπεῖσι μέρος,
ὅρμον τε τὴν αὐτὴν ἀκύμονα σωτηρίας σοφίαν νομίζειν·
δι' ἣν ἀγαθοὶ μὲν πατέρες τέκνων οἱ τῷ πατρὶ προσδεδρα-
μηκότες, ἀγαθοὶ δὲ γονεῦσιν υἱοὶ οἱ τὸν υἱὸν νενοηκότες,
ἀγαθοὶ δὲ ἄνδρες γυναικῶν οἱ μεμνημένοι τοῦ νυμφίου,
ἀγαθοὶ δὲ οἰκετῶν δεσπόται οἱ τῆς ἐσχάτης δουλείας
λελυτρωμένοι.

Clemens Alexandrinus Theol., Paedagogus
Book 1, chapter 5, subchapter 23, section 2, line 3

Ἐγέλα δὲ μυστικῶς,
ἐμπλῆσαι ἡμᾶς προφητεύων χαρᾶς τὸν κύριον τοὺς αἵματι
κυρίου ἐκ φθορᾶς λελυτρωμένους.

Clemens Alexandrinus Theol., Paedagogus
Book 1, chapter 6, subchapter 49, section 4, line 3

Πάντῃ τοίνυν ἡμεῖς
τὰ πάντα Χριστῷ προσῳκειώμεθα, καὶ εἰς συγγένειαν διὰ τὸ
αἷμα αὐτοῦ, ᾧ λυτρούμεθα, καὶ εἰς συμπάθειαν διὰ τὴν ἀνα-
τροφὴν τὴν ἐκ τοῦ λόγου, καὶ εἰς ἀφθαρσίαν διὰ τὴν ἀγωγὴν
τὴν αὐτοῦ·
τὸ θρέψαι δ' ἐν βροτοῖσι πολλάκις
πλείω πορίζει φίλτρα τοῦ φῦσαι τέκνα.

Clemens Alexandrinus Theol., Paedagogus
Book 1, chapter 9, subchapter 86, section 2, line 7

Ὅταν
ἀπέκτεννεν αὐτούς, ἐξεζήτουν αὐτὸν καὶ ἐπέστρεφον καὶ
ὤρθριζον πρὸς τὸν θεὸν καὶ ἐμνήσθησαν, ὅτι ὁ θεὸς βοηθὸς
αὐτῶν ἐστιν καὶ ὁ θεὸς ὁ ὕψιστος λυτρωτὴς αὐτῶν ἐστιν.

Clemens Alexandrinus Theol., Paedagogus
Book 3, chapter 12, subchapter 85, section 1, line 3

Ἐγνωκότες οὖν «τὸ ἑκάστου ἔργον, ἐν φόβῳ τὸν τῆς
παροικίας ὑμῶν χρόνον ἀναστράφητε, εἰδότες ὅτι οὐ
φθαρτοῖς, ἀργυρίῳ ἢ χρυσίῳ, ἐλυτρώθημεν ἐκ τῆς ματαίας
ἡμῶν ἀναστροφῆς πατροπαραδότου, ἀλλὰ τιμίῳ αἵματι ὡς
ἀμνοῦ ἀμώμου καὶ ἀσπίλου Χριστοῦ.

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04-21-2013, 08:59 PM	#25
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Of course the counter-argument is going to be that this is just a general reference to the theme of salvation in the gospel not to specific statement or scene in the gospel, but I am not so sure.

04-22-2013, 07:33 AM	#27
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	I know that Irenaeus connects Mark 10:45 with 10:38 but there is another school of thought. The Marcosians connect the term with a baptism called apolutrosis and Luke 12:50 (and the missing narrative in Secret Mark?). Clement connects the Question of the Rich Man twice with the term via Proverbs 13:8. But I just thought none of these examples fit the idea of Jesus being "introduced in" the gospel this way.

04-22-2013, 08:14 AM	#29
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Well it's a complicated story - one that introduces hobby horses and things that generally annoy people here so I am avoiding doing so. But I'm stuck on the idea of Jesus being 'introduced in' the gospel this way. I don't know what the answer is. Clement is a very cryptic writer. He introduces ideas in ways only the initiated could understand and then leaves them hanging as a kind of lure for people to be intrigued by them. Like a woman dropping hints of attraction but not quite confirming them. I wish there were more examples of his use of λύτρον but I can only find one in the whole of the Stromata (= Prov 13:8) and then three in the Instructor (the example cited at the beginning, Prov 13:8 and then one more I haven't looked at yet). Maybe I should look at that one.

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