Sheshbazzar

Before I begin in a long and involved search and survey of the most ancient texs, Do you really wish to claim that neither Exodus 12:42 or Deuteronomy 4:2 existed in either The Torah nor the LXX before the 1st century CE. spin?

Apealling to Deuteronomy and Exodus might not make there Judaism any less Judaism, but it does indicate that they were NOT acting "in accordance with the most sacred admonitions and precepts of the prophet Moses."
Instead they were ignoring 'Moses' to 'do their own thing', a Festival every 50 days.

If you don't see the relevance of Exodus 12:42 to these 'Theraputae's described conduct, that is your lack.

spin

Your question doesn't follow from what I said.

They didn't invent the pentacontad reckoning, so they weren't ignoring anything.

Do you accept Hanukkah or is that adding?

No. It's your lack of communication. Explain yourself or clean up

:horsecrap:

Sheshbazzar

Then, without insult, what is it that does follow from what you said?

Seems like you were suggesting that the two verses I cited are not to be accepted as authentic and known to the 1st century and earlier.

Perhaps with enough searching I might come up with some pre-Christian dated exemplars that read consistent with the texts we have, if I really have to.

Please explain the intent of your comment.

spin

The implication regarding adding or removing cannot be tested because you don't know the history of the texts since they included the adding and removing clause. It doesn't protect the text from change so you don't know whether things have been added or removed, so ultimately the injunction has no content because you only have the final version.

You didn't answer my question about Hanukkah.

aa5874

Your response is extremely disturbing. It shows that you care nothing about history. You care nothing about evidence. You are not credible.

You care about the old Christian called PAUL!!!

What Christians writers of antiquity thought of Philo's Therapeutae is very significant.

I am dealing with History from antiquity. I am dealing with the evidence--not your absurdities.

"Jerome's De Viris Illustribus" In antiquity it was claimed that Philo's Therapeutae were Christians of the Jesus cult.

There is NO writer of antiquity that identified the Therapeutae as Jews by name, sect or living in Judea.

Sheshbazzar

Then, with that kind of 'reasoning' it would not matter even if I were to produce a dozen texts, all authenticated and dated to before the 1st century CE. and all containing these verses, because you can then resort to a claim that your Theraputae did not employ these particular texts containing these 'added' verses.

Really, it is not even worth engaginging in any further discussion of the matter with any 'scholar' displaying this kind of character.
You make me lose respect for you.

For contexts sake I'll repost your question;
Every Jewish person has access to the texts that tell the story of Hanukkah, it is up to them individually whether they choose to observe it or not, and if they do, how they choose to observe it.
There is clear understanding by knowledge the story of the cleansing of the Temple, that it is not found within the Law of Moses, and that this once yearly observance is not a part of that Law.

Which makes it a thing of quite different nature than men decreeing that there is to be a all-night Festival held every 50 days, founding it directly upon the the Laws regarding the sanctity and observance of The Sabbath, and by so doing adding an additional seven 'sabbaths' into every year, onto The Law, which were NOT commanded within that Law.

With this entire Theraputae cults religious life revolving around the the timing and the repeated observance of this 50th day Festival, it is highly doubtful that observance of it was (or would be) regarded as optional within the cult.

The evidence is that this was a strange local 'hermit cult' practice that the rest of mainstream Judaism never bought into.
Which is fully understandable in any normal -working- Jewish society, as there are plenty of real Sabbaths, Festivals, and Fasts that are already enjoined by The Law of Moses, without needing to add on the complication seven more 'sabbaths' and all-night observances (to be held on the First Day of the Week at that)

_ Imagine, Jews taking up the keeping of seven -24 hour observance- SUNDAYS a year as being their 'sabbaths'. May Hell freeze over first.

No big deal for these six-day a week hermits to add every seventh SUNDAY to their days off. (Were there ever any where they were on?)
These 'Theraputae' could simply drag their emancipated carcasses back into their desert shanty 'monasteries' come morning,
But normal -working- Jewish people, the farmers, the bakers, the carpenters, the herdsmen, and laborers needed to be about their productive professions, and obeying the injunction of The Law; "Six days you shall labor" (but I suppose that's just another one of the 'added' verses of the Bible in your view)

I'm not Jewish, so my entire 'observance' of Hanukkah usually consist of no more than observing that the dates for this Jewish Festival are noted on my common Gregorian Calendar.

Kind of amazing how willing you are to offhandedly discredit the provenance of long known and establish Scriptural verses from the Books of Exodus and Deuteronomy, while at the same time accepting every bit of the horse shit appearing in 'Philo's' De vita contemplativa as though they were the infallible words of your god.

.

Sheshbazzar

spell checker changed emaciated into 'emancipated'. I didn't catch it, and its too late to correct.

mountainman

This is indeed an excellent point.

The historical reality of Conjoined twins of course would have been known to the physicians of antiquity - and the "therapeutae of Asclepius" - in the lineage back to Hippocrates.

An epic poem from antiquity mentioning conjoined twins is Catalogue of Women

It could be that the author of "VC" (63) was aware of Hesiod's poem.

Greek mythology is being attacked as fictitious, and Mosaic mythology is being praised as the enduring wisdom.

Reminds me of propaganda.

aa5874

It is most amusing that some of the very same people who argue that the Therapeutae were Jews because they used Hebrew Scripture are some who argue that the Pauline writer was a CONTEMPORARY of Philo and that he wrote letters to Churches of the Uncircumcised.

Once it is argued that there were early Non-Jewish Christians during the time of Philo who used and studied Hebrew Scripture then it cannot be assumed that the Therapeutae were Jews merely because they used or studied Hebrew Scripture.

In fact, Christians used and studied Hebrew Scripture and invented a religion that Jews in antiquity REJECTED.

If there were Non Jews in Churches of Rome, Corinth, Thesalonica, Colosse, Philippi, Galatia and Ephesus in the time of Philo then they used and studied Hebrew Scripture.

The Pauline Epistles to the uncircumcised of Non Jewish Churches show references to Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Malachi, Habakuk, Ezekiel, Psalms, Job and Proverbs.

There are also references to Moses and David in the letters to the Churches of the Uncircumcised.

The argument that there were Pauline letters to the Churches of the Uncircumcised in the time of Philo destroys all claim that people who study Hebrew Scripture are Jews.

Based on the Pauline letters to the Churches of the Uncircumcised--Non Jews studied Hebrew Scripture "all over" the Roman Empire since 37-41 CE or during the reign King Aretas.

Sheshbazzar

Reminded me of Acts 8:27- where the Ethiopian eunuch is found reading from the Book of Isaiah and Philip converts and baptizes him.
Was he 'Jewish' before? don't know, but the tale does say that he 'had come to Jerusalem for to worship'.
_But then Scripture relates many cases where non-Jewish Gentiles worship YHWH, most famously the Queen of Sheba.

What was he after Philip baptized him? Couldn't have been a 'Christian' as according to Acts 11:26 the name 'Christian' hadn't even been invented yet.

With the production of the LXX c.300 BCE there is little doubt that a lot of educated non-Jewish people had opportunity to read and to reflect on the content of The Scriptures. That they read and had knowledge, and perhaps even believed these texts (at least the Greek version) did not entail that they were Jewish.
The Hellenized desert hermits of Alexandria could have easily been reading and acting out on the LXX texts without ever having actually became Jews.
And their non-conformity to mainstream Jewish practice is an indicator in that direction. (That is if they were not as has been suggested, a romanticized idealization of these ascetic desert hermits life-styles. The real situation may have been nowhere near as 'Jewish' nor as perfect as that 'pretty' word picture VC paints for us. )