aa5874

Of course your IMAGINARY Christians got along quite well without the FAKE authors. The FAKE authors were supposed to be 1st century authors.

Thanks to Paleography and C14--We now know ALL THE FAKE Christians of the 1st century--they are LISTED in the Myth Fables of the Canon.

Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, James, Jude, Barnabas, Silas, Titus, Philemon, Stephen, Andrew, Thomas, Andronicus, Clement, Phebe, Priscilla, Aquilla, Junia, Mary, Amplias and many more.

We KNOW how the FRAUD was carried out--They got CAUGHT at last.

Thanks to Paleography and C14.

Your 1st century Christians are going to need the Shroud of Turin.

Duvduv

If the author of the First Apo logy knew nothing of Paul and the idea of a Christian religion seeing Jesus as fulfilling prophecies for gentiles without conversion to Judaism because the Law no longer applied, where did he or his Old Man get this idea from?

Who was teaching the idea of gentiles being followers of Jesus? Indeed, Justin claims to be part of a whole community which he does not describe in terms of location, leaders etc. And he does not indicate who taught the idea about a religion succeeding Judaism.

The official canon taught that Paul introduced this idea from a revelation, and yet this Justin knew nothing of him. So where did this idea originate from prior to the emergence of the Pauline teachings, and did the author of the epistles get the idea from the Apology or from elsewhere?

Whether or not the Dialogue was written by the author of the First Apology, these texts also invoked verses in the Tanakh not mentioned by the epistles, so it seems hard to see the Pauline author having knowledge of the Justin texts, which would suggest that after the Justin texts (identified with the second century) a FIRST CENTURY source for the religion was obviously needed alongside the Jesus story in order to sanction the abandonment of the binding nature of the Torah together with the arrival of the Messiah.

aa5874

Again, please read the writings attributed to Justin Martyr.

The writer called Justin Martyr used the Septuagint or Hebrew Scriptures and the Memoirs of the Apostles for his ideas or beliefs.

The author MENTIONED BY NAME the books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Kings, Samuel, Isaiah, Daniel, Micah, Zechariah, Hosea, Malachi, Amos, Ezekiel, Zephaniah, Jeremiah, Jonah, Psalms and Job.

Duvduv

I KNOW! I am simply referring to the fact that SOMEONE came up with the idea that this was for gentiles BEFORE the Paul storyline emerged.

Therefore, it seems clear that when the Roman empire leaders adopted a monotheistic faith of salvation for themselves connected with their affinity to the Tanakh that they subsequently needed a FIRST CENTURY source for the cancellation of the Law and association with gentiles because the author known as "Justin" did not provide that along with his stories and prophecies.

Indeed, this guy couldn't name any predecessors, leaders, communities, etc. of himself or his UNNAMED Old Man, but he came up with a fellow named "John" who wrote about a revelation concerning a thousand years in Jerusalem. Of course no one knows who this Yochanan/John was, whether he was a gentile like "Justin" or a Jew, or just a momentary fancy of the author. Notice he uses the term "among us" without EVER explaining who the "US" really is or where they are:

Moreover also among us a man named John, one of the apostles of Christ, prophesied in a revelation made to him that those who have believed on our Christ will spend a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that hereafter the general and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all will likewise take place. (Dial. 81.4)

Notice again and again that this "Justin" supposedly wrote a bare 120 years after his alleged Jesus and apostles were around in the first century and could not name any of the Apostles whose "Memoirs" he mentioned, neither a Willy or a Sam, and yet he knew about a guy named John who "prophesied" about 1000 years in Jerusalem.

In any case, Justin could not explain how gentiles attained the promise of the Jewish messiah and the cancellation of the Law that must have developed (ACCORDING TO HIM) a bare century before when the Temple was destroyed. So it was necessary to provide the evidence for this view before the destruction of the Temple with the assorted "prophecies" against the Jews.

aa5874

Please, READ Revelation.

The Name John is ACTUALLY found in Revelation as the author.

Revelation 1:1 KJV Justin Martyr did NOT invent authors like Irenaeus.

Duvduv

The author does not say what it says in Revelation. Evidently "Justin" did not read about the New Jerusalem and Christ's rule for 1000 years. He must have gotten his story wrong or had a different John.

But this was not my point. My point was why a subsequent set of epistles does not invoke what Justin talks about in relation to the verses concerning the Messiah. Please reread my earlier postings.

aa5874

Again, you need to read Revelation and the writings attributed to Justin Martyr. You are making Blunder AFTER Blunder.

Dialogue with TryphoRevelation 20:4 KJV

Duvduv

It should be clear to both of us that the reference in the Dialogue was not the same as in Revelation. That's shown by the fact that the Dialogue does not name a book but states a tradition:

who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem...

Whereas the book said something different:

they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years....

AND there is no point to trying to distract me from the main point, which for your benefit I shall repeat:
The epistles did not invoke the biblical verses that preceded them in the Justin texts because the empire's emerging religious leaders needed a FIRST CENTURY SOURCE to justify the idea that the messiah teaching was for the gentiles with the cancelation of the Law, and the JUSTIN TEXT did not offer that FIRST CENTURY source.

Furthermore, we note that there is no evidence of a COMPETING set of epistles, or disputes over what a particular epistle in the set said. This indicates there were no competing sets of epistles,but only one set. One set for which there is no actual evidence that the letters were ever sent out to the recipients, that the recipients ever received them or answered them, or that the recipient town ever had a Christian community there. And there is good reason to suggest that the epistles were actually composites of different authors and ideas.

aa5874

Please, I totally disagree with you. Justin Martyr's statement about the revelation of John in "Dialogue with Trypho is compatible to the statement found in Revelation supposedly written by John.

I cannot find what you are talking about in any source of antiquity at all. NO-ONE, NO SOURCE of antiquity mentioned those things. Please, you are making stuff up.

I no longer accept made up stuff as evidence.

You MUST LOCATE a source of antiquity or else you are wasting time.

I NEED Credible sources of antiquity to reconstruct the past--NOT your imagination.

Duvduv

OK, AA, offer us your own best hypothesis as to why the epistles with Paul (which are not mentioned in the Justin texts) must have come after the Justin texts but do not invoke the ideas of the Justin texts that preceded the epistles.