Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Clinical · 01-07-2009, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clinical

It can only refer to Muhammed. No Saracen (Arab) prophet existed in that time except Muhammed.

The Quran does indeed say that the Torah and Injil (A book revealed to Eisa or Jesus as you know him) had prophecies about Muhammed but that these prophecies were lost because of the continuous tampering with the Torah over the years.

You can also read John of Damascus' (Who lived in the 7th century) polemic against Islam. He mentions Muhammed by name there.

The Hebrew bible with books being discovered at the cave before Muhammed does not make predictions about an Arabic prophet

1. The Hebrew Bible is only an authority to Jews and Christians. It's not an authority to the rest of the world, which includes Muslims.
2. If the Hebrew Bible of 1000 years after Moses did make predictions about an Arab prophet, then what would be the point of sending down the Quran? Actually one of the major differences between the Quran and Bible is that the Torah did predict about a Gentile prophet.
3. Even using the current Bible we have today some Muslims have attempted to show that the Bible does still hint about Islam and its prophet.

Quote:

Muhammed who has no prophecies like the OT prophets is a false prophet.

1. Again, the Hebrew Bible is only an authority to Jews and Christians. It means nothing to those who do not believe it to be the word of God.
2. Do you mean that the Quran does not make prophecies about the future which passed the test of time or that the Bible makes no mention of Muhammed?

Clinical · 01-07-2009, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clinical

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/stjohn_islam.aspx

Excellent - thank you. It's from his work Adversus Haereses, the last section. Glad to see that it is accessible.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

You are welcome. So do you know believe that Muhammed existed as a historical figure? I hope our friend TaylorC too takes a look at it and gives us his opinion.

premjan · 01-07-2009, 09:04 AM

The Tawrat is considered

Quote:

an authentic revelation from God corrupted with the additions and alterations of men.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah

sugarhitman · 01-07-2009, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clinical

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

The Hebrew bible with books being discovered at the cave before Muhammed does not make predictions about an Arabic prophet

1. The Hebrew Bible is only an authority to Jews and Christians. It's not an authority to the rest of the world, which includes Muslims.
2. If the Hebrew Bible of 1000 years after Moses did make predictions about an Arab prophet, then what would be the point of sending down the Quran? Actually one of the major differences between the Quran and Bible is that the Torah did predict about a Gentile prophet.
3. Even using the current Bible we have today some Muslims have attempted to show that the Bible does still hint about Islam and its prophet.

Quote:

Muhammed who has no prophecies like the OT prophets is a false prophet.

1. Again, the Hebrew Bible is only an authority to Jews and Christians. It means nothing to those who do not believe it to be the word of God.
2. Do you mean that the Quran does not make prophecies about the future which passed the test of time or that the Bible makes no mention of Muhammed?

Yes show us the predictions of Muhammed which has stood the test of time.

premjan · 01-07-2009, 09:35 AM

Are you serious - that some of the non-Islamic predictions have been dead accurate? The reformulation of Israel is virtually wish fulfillment and not prophecy.

sugarhitman · 01-07-2009, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by premjan

Are you serious - that some of the non-Islamic predictions have been dead accurate? The reformulation of Israel is virtually wish fulfillment and not prophecy.

Israel is a key prophecy that backs the bible and God.

premjan · 01-07-2009, 09:59 AM

I think Israel was recreated because it was written in prophecy. The British were pretty gung ho on it.

sugarhitman · 01-07-2009, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by premjan

I think Israel was recreated because it was written in prophecy. The British were pretty gung ho on it.

Why did Britain renig and gave 80% of promised land to Transjordan? Why did they resist Jewish immigration? Britain abstained from the UN vote concerning Israel. So no broken promises and hostility certainly do not constitute support. America also were against but Truman went against the wishes of the Elite voted yes and later America withdrew this support that sparked a huge protest in America to force the gov. to support Israel. Also America slapped an arms embargo on Israel during the 48 war which if lost....Israel would not exist.

Israel was not created by the west....the Jews fought for their state.

premjan · 01-07-2009, 10:07 AM

Yeah OK they didn't completely go through with their support but it wouldn't have come up probably without some support from them.

sugarhitman · 01-07-2009, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by premjan

Yeah OK they didn't completely go through with their support but it wouldn't have come up probably without some support from them.

If they didnt go through with their support that means they cannot be Israel's creators regardless of previous support. The fact is it was a non Christian nation that lead nations to accept Israel and that was Atheist Russia. So the Christian created Israel argument falls dead on it head.

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01-07-2009, 09:35 AM	#25
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	Are you serious - that some of the non-Islamic predictions have been dead accurate? The reformulation of Israel is virtually wish fulfillment and not prophecy.

01-07-2009, 09:59 AM	#27
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	I think Israel was recreated because it was written in prophecy. The British were pretty gung ho on it.

01-07-2009, 10:07 AM	#29
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	Yeah OK they didn't completely go through with their support but it wouldn't have come up probably without some support from them.

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