Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Yahzi · 07-08-2004, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by never been there

It's counterintuitive but demonstrable that behaviour influences belief more strongly than the other way around.

This seems to be a bit of a revolution in psychology. I read a fellow who argued that "insights are a result of progress," and not the other way around (he ran a halfway house for troubled teens).

Pascal had the right of it, it seems: it begins by behaving like a believer. Who would have figured old Blaise was on the money?

Biff the unclean · 07-08-2004, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Rat

It's story time again.

The part I found most interesting about your story was not that your friends became frightened and ran away, but that they left you behind.
Long ago back in Vietnam we had much the same situation. No one would go "in the field" (we were O.N.I.) with any of the guys who "had a personal relationship with Jesus" for that very reason.
I think the reason devote Xians claim that there are no Atheists in foxholes is because they never stuck around long enough to find out.

King Rat · 07-08-2004, 01:56 PM

Quote:

The part I found most interesting about your story was not that your friends became frightened and ran away, but that they left you behind.

I have a reputation for being able to take care of myself.

I give them shit every chance I can get. My buddy Ben's nickname is "heels" because that is what you see anytime there is trouble.

Naked Ape · 07-08-2004, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdlongmire

...just recommending an alternate word for the experiment...

quidnunc...

Lo and behold I have found this obscure word no less that seven times on this thread alone. Here is another word to watch for: defenestration, which is best practiced on quidnuncs and outdated computer systems.

Meanwhile, back on the topic of the OP...

I would have one question to someone who asserted such cloth eared nonsense: How do you reconcile this advice with Jebus words in Matthew 4:7 and Luke 4:12 seeing how this experiment appears to be putting the Lord your God to the test?

Quote:

Matthew 4:7 Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"
Luke 4:12 Jesus answered, "It says: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"
Deuteronomy 6:16 Do not test the LORD your God as you did at Massah.
Exodus 17
Water in the Rock
1 Then all the congregation of the sons of Israel journeyed by stages from the wilderness of (1) Sin, according to the command of the LORD, and camped at (2) Rephidim, and there was no water for the people to drink.
2 Therefore the people (3) quarreled with Moses and said, "Give us water that we may drink." And Moses said to them, "(4) Why do you quarrel with me? (5) Why do you test the LORD?"
3 But the people thirsted there for water; and they (6) grumbled against Moses and said, "Why, now, have you brought us up from Egypt, to kill us and our children and (7) our livestock with thirst?"
4 So Moses cried out to the LORD, saying, "What shall I do to this people? A (8) little more and they will stone me."
5 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Pass before the people and take with you some of (9) the elders of Israel; and take in your hand your staff with which (10) you struck the Nile, and go.
6 "Behold, I will stand before you there on the rock at (11) Horeb; and (12) you shall strike the rock, and water will come out of it, that the people may drink." And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.
7 He named the place [1] (13) Massah and [2] (14) Meribah because of the quarrel of the sons of Israel, and because they (15) tested the LORD, saying, "Is the LORD among us, or not?"

I guess the agile applogist would claim that we are not supposed to demand that god produce water from rocks, but other sorts of tests are A OK. Perhaps we are only to eschew god testing at Massah (test) and Meribah (quarrel)? The nice thing about taking bronze age goatherder fables at face value is you can make them say anything.

Cheers,

Naked Ape

jdlongmire · 07-08-2004, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biff the unclean

The part I found most interesting about your story was not that your friends became frightened and ran away, but that they left you behind.
Long ago back in Vietnam we had much the same situation. No one would go "in the field" (we were O.N.I.) with any of the guys who "had a personal relationship with Jesus" for that very reason.
I think the reason devote Xians claim that there are no Atheists in foxholes is because they never stuck around long enough to find out.

hmmm, my dad is a Christian and was Special Forces in Vietnam...I would be careful about typecasting, sir...

King Rat · 07-08-2004, 03:09 PM

Quote:

hmmm, my dad is a Christian and was Special Forces in Vietnam...I would be careful about typecasting, sir...

Maybe when your dad starts posting on IIDB we can discuss it with him.

Biff the unclean · 07-08-2004, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdlongmire

hmmm, my dad is a Christian and was Special Forces in Vietnam...I would be careful about typecasting, sir...

I didn't say "Christian" now did I? Most of the guys were Christian. I said the ones who claimed that they "had a personal relationship with Jesus" were the ones that no one trusted to watch their backs. And no one trusted them for good reason.

Gunnaheave · 07-08-2004, 10:17 PM

[Mod Action] I'm not real optimistic about the prospects of a good discussion if JLong's dad remains on the table much longer. I know y'all came by it honestly, but the inflamatory potential fairly outweighs its probabtive value. I would appreciate it if you guys would be take some extra care not offend on this one.

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07-08-2004, 10:17 PM	#28
Gunnaheave Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: AZ Posts: 3,250	[Mod Action] I'm not real optimistic about the prospects of a good discussion if JLong's dad remains on the table much longer. I know y'all came by it honestly, but the inflamatory potential fairly outweighs its probabtive value. I would appreciate it if you guys would be take some extra care not offend on this one.

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