Autumnman

In Joshua Chapter 8 it is written that "God" (YHWH) "the LORD" told Joshua to Kill all the men, women, and children of the kingdom of A'-i (verses 1 & 2 and 25, 26, and 27).

You talk about God being depicted as a "bad example". God didn't do his own dirty work, as in the flood (a supernatural "natural" disaster), God tells some fallible human to do his killing for him. Does that sound familiar or what????

Mabus_Zero

The most damning evidence against the global-deluge/Biblical Creation story, is a simple biological conundrum that this presents. The event of such a deluge, due to the basic geography of the earth, would involve a great deal of highly salinated water to mix in with the fresh-water areas (rivers, lakes, streams, etc.)

The fish that would be inhabiting the streams prior to the flood would be doomed to extinction, simply by the fact that the heavier material that was the salt in the ocean waters would mingle with the freshwater, thus poisoning the lifeforms that could not sufficiently adapt to the situation.

No more fresh water Bass and Salmon, or anything else that lived in the lakes and rivers.

Autumnman

Furthermore, when Genesis 8:15 states that "they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, where in is the breath of life" a great problem arises - these beasts, cattle, creeping things, flying creatures and birds don't all get along peacefully. Some are predators and some are prey. The Bible makes no mention of God altering these creatures' appetites. The ark must have been one lively and dangerous place.
If this part of the story does not make logical, rational, reasonable sense then why would any other part of it?

David M. Payne

Yes I have no belief in the Abrahamic God, though as an agnostic I do hold open the possibility of some form of what we might call a god could exist. Think of it in terms of a being as advanced on the human race as we are on lab rats. In my view such a being is possible and many people would look at him/it as a god. Could we be the results of some alien experiment? Possibly, but not relevant to our current situation, because we are here and we need to deal with the here and now as a species, not get all caught up in the old conundrum of "where did we come from, why are we here, and where do we go after we die?" Though these questions and the answers that the God/religion biz provide are the cornerstone of why they exist, I don't think they have much meaning for the human race now. Now we need to focus on the problems that we face as a species.

To my mind we are like a guy who finds himself on a large island and doesn’t know how or why he got there. He can sit on the beach and wrestle with those questions, or he can get off his ass and work on solving his current needs, like food, shelter, and survival. Perhaps some day we will solve those three questions, but right now we have much bigger problems, some like 9/11 caused by people who believe in the God/religion biz, the rest are the challenges of our survival as a species. The God/religion biz is a sideshow that distracts us from applying more of our energies as a species on solving our social and material problems. When god finally dies in the minds of the true believers, so will these religions that seek "The Usual" money, power and influence, and ultimately control over its true believers. The God/religion biz is just one more form of authoritarian control that the human race needs to toss in the dust bin of history, hopefully sooner rather than later. Hopefully 9/11 should open up people's eyes to the danger that these beliefs in Gods and devils and other supernatural beings present us with in the here and now.

David

cjack

I don't know if the example is really the driving force behind all of it. Rather, I would say the root is religious ego.

People don't really kill each other over religion because they read the Bible or Koran and say "hey, God can kill people, why not us?" No, they kill each other because they are egotistical enough to think that they've got a lock on exactly what God wants, needs, and gets off on, and are willing to do violence in service of that ego.

It's a generalization, but I think it is fair to say that religious wars have at their center the idea that "our religion is the one true religion and we have to kill or convert anyone who disagrees!"

Whether or not God exists or what God does or even what God "says" in the holy book is irrelevant. What's really driving the people fighting the war is the egotistical belief that they and only they are doing exactly what God wants them to do. I mean, how many years was Europe drenched in blood over which version of the Christian Bible was the "right" one?

Most of the words are the same. The big concepts are the same. Same cast of characters, etc., but how many people died because a few egotistical assholes couldn't get over a few doctrinal quibbles?

Mountain Man

It's a religion, it doesn't have to make sense.

"God transported ALL animals to the ark. At the top of the ramp they shrank to an extremely small size and did not have to eat, deficate, or urinate, until they were transported back to their original areas. God is God and can do all this."

Hey, I'm sure there are quite a few people that would believe the above.... that's the problem.... too many believe it.

Mountain Man

You cannot win. All the believer has to say is; "They are here so god must have saved them." Any logic is countered with mindlessness. That's what this whole thread is about; the mindless following of beliefs. They actually follow their preachers to war to kill other people - even those that believe in the same god!

David M. Payne

The problem is always the actions of people, and its their motivations that cause them to do what they do that is the hope and curse of humanity.

The root of the three religions of the Abrahamic God is the concept of God. Take that god away and these religions go away with him. In the end what will bring down the power Abrahamic religions that have inflected things like 9/11 on humanity, is people loosing their belief in God in such numbers that these religions become as influential as say the gods and religious beliefs of the Ancient Greeks, or the religious beliefs of the Norse peoples and Odin are today.

The god being is the key to the Abrahamic religions, without him/it they have no rational for their existence. And their existence is very lucrative; though finding numbers on how much these three religions make off their slice of the Abrahamic God/religion biz is difficult to come by. There are a lot of problems with the authoritarian nature of the God/religion biz and the way some of its true believers do evil in the name of their good God. Well, enough on that, catch you guys later.

David

Mountain Man

I can see no reason to hold out for such a possibility.And look how we treat lab rats.I'm on a different island. I know how we got here and there is even a purpose. It has nothing to do with gods though an a lot to do with DNA.There are many things that have happened in history that SHOULD have opened up people eyes to the insanity that religious beliefs cause. It appears we humans aren't as bright as we think we are.

Clivedurdle

Holy wars were invented by Darius.