Jack the Bodiless

Incorrect: nobody else is specifically named.

God is implied, but the apologetic attempt to break up the "prophecy" merely creates TWO failed prophecies: both Nebby and God fail to perform the acts "prophesied" for each of them.

But, of course, this has been covered previously.
I wonder just how long you will continue to ignore the simple, clear, uncontroversial, well-established FACT that the Book of Ezekiel was not completed until AFTER the siege of Tyre?

bfniii

you're missing the point. what i am stating is that there aren't the rigid "forum debate rules" that some people are trying to force fit on the thread.



i have no problem with that.



whatever. how about some specifics instead of this vague garbage?



this forum is not that type of debate. i have asked anyone who participates, what would be evidence to you?



that you know of



not exactly. philadelphia lawyer and apikorus have straightened that out.



i have already stated my case regarding this issue



antics? you mean asking skeptics to support their beliefs? asking them why their beliefs are convincing?



oooooh. you're so tough.

besides, this is untrue. anyone can go to that thread and make up their own mind about that issue. this type of statement by you is a good example of your attitude. it's your opinion that i refused. you stating that i refused is nothing more than immature posturing. if you really had a case, you would link to a post where i actually made such a statement.



actually i did and i can quote the post.



yup. thus using a process of elimination. next objection....... (if you have any)



i wasn't aware i had done that. perhaps you could cite an example so that i could clear it up.



whatever you say. i asked a question. can you not answer it?



what about them? do you have some point to make?

Apikorus

God uses Nebuchadrezzar as his instrument of destruction:which means This is a common theme throughout the Hebrew Bible, namely that Yahweh uses human kings and armies as instruments of his will.

So Yahweh is pulling the strings, but the proximate cause of the destruction of Tyre was to be Nebuchadrezzar. Of course, the prophecy failed, and Nebuchadrezzar did not destroy Tyre.

Jack the Bodiless

What does this mean?

You don't mind if OTHER Christians attempt it, but YOU will continue to refuse to do it yourself?
Obviously, the "specifics" would have to be provided by the Christians. They cannot provide them.
This THREAD (not "forum") relates specifically to the failure of Christians to establish a date for the Tyre "prophecy". You keep drifting off this topic.
Another allusion to the "secret evidence" that we would know about if we had "researched" it.

The bluff doesn't become any more convincing by repetition, bfniii.
Yes it is, and I suggest you read that sequence of posts again (more carefully). JS clarified this (there was an issue about the phrasing of the thread title and opening post), and they accepted it.
..."Statement"? You simply failed to respond, despite initially pretending that you had relevant knowledge, and despite repeated challenges. Your bluff was called.
How many examples do you need? Plenty of those on the previous thread (Daniel, the Flood, the miracles of the Egyptian priests, and so on). That thread is still active, if you DO decide to revisit it: no need to derail this one further.
I did. You're getting lost again.
You really are COMPLETELY stumped, aren't you?

You've hit a brick wall.

This is YOUR argument, bfniii. YOU are the one who's supposed to have a "point" here! But you didn't even know the names of the instruments, and now that you have them, you have no idea how to proceed, to establish YOUR claim that they are "evidence" for an EARLY authorship of Daniel.

My point has been made, thank you.

bfniii

i'm not following you. what i am saying is we can start by addressing each objection, one at a time. after that, we can address the type of techniques mentioned by apikorus



what common sense tells me is that it's all part of what happened. events depend on other events. therefore, the when is important too.

bfniii

i wasn't aware the bible says the earth is flat.



the bible doesn't necessarily make this case. not all christians are YEC.



i've already discussed this in this thread



apparently, everything. is there something specific you have a question about?



the bible purports to be the word of God. is there a God?



queued.

bfniii

no, it is entirely the point. if you want to know what christians believe, either go to church or state your objections to the bible/christianity.



you're still missing the point. the forum isn't called jewish writings and why they are true. the forum is called biblical criticism. list your criticisms and why you think they are convincing.



not any that i am aware of. do you know of any?



you are way off base. i am here to learn about objections to the bible.



this is not a lawsuit nor a court of law. there isn't a judge or a jury. anyone is free to believe whatever they wish. i am asking you and other skeptics why your beliefs are convincing in a forum called biblical criticism on a website called internet infidels. i find it absolutely amazing how shy skeptics are about making their case on their own website. it's baffling how often skeptics fall back on the excuse that christians "bear the burden". don't skeptics have the winning hand? it should be easy to debunk the anachronistic, ignorant christian beliefs regardless of whether christians are even present or not.



i haven't been given a reason by anyone here to doubt the prophecy.

Jack the Bodiless

bfniii:
Then you are obviously unaware of what the Biblical worldview WAS.

Here we go again:


(from the New American Bible, St. Joseph edition)

This is the worldview that is consistently referred to throughout the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, and in other Hebrew literature too (notably the Book of Enoch). The usual apologetic excuse for such references is that they are "metaphorical" (a standard excuse for Biblical errors, regardless of context): but the point they keep missing is that each such verse is a lost opportunity to present a correct view of the world. Whenever there's a chance to demonstrate "supernatural knowledge", the Bible fails.

(...A more detailed study of the relevant verses would be a derailment of this thread, but the example is somewhat relevant, as it touches on burden-of-proof issues: there is no Biblical evidence which contradicts this view of the world, no reason at all to assume they believed the Earth was spherical).
Yes, it does. And nobody is an OEC because of what the Bible says: most Christians aren't YEC's because they aren't that ignorant. Of course, OEC "day-age creationism" has a host of other problems, such as inability to accommodate the evidence for common descent, inability to fit in enough years from Adam to the present, and so on: but the E/C forum is the place to discuss these.
No, THAT was the thread in which you FAILED to discuss it. The thread in which you were repeatedly CHALLENGED to discuss it, in THIS thread created specifically for the topic (where you conspicuously failed to show up).

Is your memory playing tricks on you?
Yes. Your ongoing failure to provide a specific example of something the Bible is "authoritative, trustworthy, accurate and dependable" about, for starters (other than purely mundane details such as the existence of Jerusalem etc).
So, you "know" that ANY book that purports to be the word of God actually IS the word of God.

So you're a Muslim. And a Mormon. And...
...Why? What is your aversion to addressing points on threads which are specifically relevant to each one?

We've already seen how confused you get when you try to tackle everything on a mammoth "super-thread".

Apikorus

And what would those problems be?

bfniii

that's not what i'm saying. what i am saying is that you can choose not to support your beliefs, but who would be convinced by that?



just curious, like what?



oh yeah? care to point out any specifics? i hope you're not going to repeat questions i have already responded to.