Amos

Sure thing and I don't need to elaborate any further. Thanks for your responses.

RED DAVE

From Amos:

I seem to be spending a lot of time on this board dealing with antisemitism. And here it is again!

So tell me, Amos, as I have asked many xtians before, did my great-grandmother, who was murdered at Auschwitz, by people who probably called themselves xtians, did my great-grandmother go to hell?

RED DAVE

Yuri Kuchinsky

Well, judge, this would depend on how you define "direct". Most scholars believe that the Old Syriac is a precursor to the Peshitta.

Quote:

The peshitta manuscripts are all the same not because they were standardised but because they are all the same text copied word for word.

Can you prove it?

Quote:

Variation would be the result of translation. Where the peshitta is ambiguous we find varaition in the translations. Uniformity could be the result of standardisation OR it might just be the mark of the original.

You're still avoiding the main issue. The Peshitta is similar to the Latin Vulgate. The Old Latin MSS are very similar to the Old Syriac MSS. Thus, if the Old Latin was prior to the Vulgate, then it's also very likely that the Old Syriac was prior to the Peshitta.

Simple logic.

Yuri.

Amos

Your problem is that you see it where there is none. My messages was very much pro Judaism and I speak highly of the religion as a religion and not because I like or dislike Jews.
Dave, I think that it was too late for your great-grandmother mother to get to heaven when she died because when we die our life is over and it is kind of difficult to go anyplace without a life, don't you think? Or did you think that somebody owes us somenthing when we die?

BTW, if it makes you feel any better, the same can be said for Catholics but not for protestants.

RED DAVE

Amos you wrote:

If you are saying that no one who practices any religion get to go to heaven, please say so, and we can go on from there.

I have no real way of knowing what this means. Please explain.

RED DAVE

Amos

No, religion is needed to get to heaven and, in fact, heaven is mythology specific and so there will not be any Buddhists in our heaven. They have Nirvana and don't even want your heaven but an argument can be made that they are the same thing but just a little different way to get there.

My point is that you can get to heaven as Jew but not into heaven as Jew and therefore Judas, who stands for Judaism (or is Judaism personified), must be annihilated. Later the missing apostel is replaced by Matthias which means that Joseph the ex Jew returned to religion as Freeman and did whatever he did for the Church.

Notice that religion is like a vehicle that gets you from A to B and this means that you must get out when you get to there. This leaving religion behind seems to be no problem because it will leave you stranded and that is what the hanging and betrayal is all about. Notice also the anger Jesus displayed against the pharisees and maybe you have come across this same sentiment in real life today.

RED DAVE

From Amos:

[QUOTE]My point is that you can get to heaven as Jew but not into heaven as Jew and therefore Judas, who stands for Judaism (or is Judaism personified), must be annihilated. Later the missing apostel is replaced by Matthias which means that Joseph the ex Jew returned to religion as Freeman and did whatever he did for the Church.QUOTE]

Judaism (or is Judaism personified), must be annihilated.

Antisemitism at its finest, masquerading, as usual as religion.

RED DAVE

Amos

Ah but Dave, the betrayal by Judas is the best thing that ever happened to Jesus and you should be proud of that.

Doctor X

I have noted that there is no shame in ignorance, merely in the desire to remain ignorant.

Worse than shame, it seems that willful ignorance leads to bigotry.

The NT texts are antisemitic, and one can understand the reasons given the times and the situation, not to mention the theme. However, this does not excuse current individuals from being antisemitic or using the texts to justify antisemitism.

--J.D.

Devilnaut

The NT stories are about what happens right before and after crucifixion. It makes sense (to me) that for 'entrance' into heaven you need to leave your religion at the door (kill it off) because, if the religion was successful, you won't need law anymore because you will be above the law. What this means is that from a lifetime of sinning and confessional you will have embedded the "laws" into your soul and it will be natural for you to follow them. It isn't antisemetic, quite the opposite, it's a statement as to the overall value of judaism. But at the same time it's reminding us that no matter how great an idea is, it's greatest glory is only to point to God and never to be a God in and of itself.


What I meant by saying that Amos is coming from the point of the view of the whole story is that he has the benefit of being able to reason along with the bible and someone coming from the point of view of a skeptic does not have this priveledge. Whenever something does not make sense, instead of reasoning through it you have to fill the gap with extra information (making it overally less cogent instead of more)


It's kind of the same idea where you can often get things right the first time, and by going back trying to correct you might make it better for public consumption but you will also dillude it more.