Freethought & Rationalism Archive

diana · 09-22-2007, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by placebo

I think some of you are missing the point of my approach. It's no more complicated than "The Emperor Has No Clothes." If people in their private lives want to believe in fairy tales that is none of my business. If it makes them feel secure, makes them happy, gives them purpose, lets them feel superior- good for them. The problem is many of these same people want to base public policy on this nonsense. It's getting extreme. What should scare everyone is that we've got a president that claims to talk with God. We've got people in power that don't respect earthly life because there is an afterlife. That makes it way to easy for them to sacrifice thousands with little if any remorse. And the source of this confidence and bravado is a fairy tale. I have no problem pointing out that snakes can't talk and virgins can't give birth.

Your pathos falls on empathetic ears, I assure you, but it provides no logical reason to attack the problem this way.

Theists as a group (that is, generally speaking) tend to be well aware of the fairy tale nature of their stories. They may never have thought of them as "fairy tales," but they usually aren't too disturbed by this "new" viewpoint, because they categorize the stories in a place where they are not susceptible to critical examination. You can list "fairy tales" until you're blue in the face, but Bush will still have conversations with the Almighty.

That's all we're trying to point out.

So...back to your regularly scheduled snarkfest. Enjoy yourself. Just please don't think you're building a case that will make a dent.

d

placebo · 09-22-2007, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diana

... You can list "fairy tales" until you're blue in the face, but Bush will still have conversations with the Almighty.

That's all we're trying to point out. ...

I never intended to claim that "one size fits all." However, there is a large group that calls themselves Christians that know very little of what is in the Bible. Most of them will never be persuaded by complicated philosophical arguments. However, few people can wholeheartedly defend a belief that makes them look foolish. Shining light on the absurdities in the Bible is one way to accomplish this.

Tangent · 09-22-2007, 09:14 PM

My contribution to the list.

Genesis 3:24 He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

I always ask bible literalists if they truly believe there are cherubim and a flaming sword out there somewhere right now in Mesopotamia.

Jayrok · 09-23-2007, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by placebo

I have trouble understanding how people with an IQ above 80 can believe in the fairy tale known as Christianity. This is not to single out Christians, it's just that they are predominant in the world I live. I've read and participated in most of the arguments such as God as First Cause, Argument From Design, Moral Arguments, and Pascal's Wager. Arguing these topics can be frustrating, and I think they give unwarranted credibility to Christianity and disguise the fact that it is just plain silly. Instead, I would like to focus on the absurdity of Christianity. Things that no sane person has experienced in their earthly lives. Who has ever come across a talking snake? Or seen anyone but a magician turn water into wine? In this regard I would like the board's help in compiling an extensive list of non-sensical Christian beliefs and events that even a Caveman can see are silly. If such a list already exists I would appreciate directions to it. If not I'll get it started (with sources):

(1) Talking snake in Garden of Eden (Genesis 3)
(2) Jesus turns water into wine (John 2)
(3) Jonah survives 3 days in the belly of a whale (Jonah 1-2)

-- A man formed into an adult from dirt
-- A woman fashioned solely from the rib of the dirt man

(BTW, if one claims these are allegory, then where does the bible actually explain the real origin of man?)

-- 3 men walking out of a fiery furnace unscathed
-- A man killing 1,000 soldiers single-handedly with the jawbone of a donkey

Equinox · 09-24-2007, 09:24 AM

OK, this discussion is obviously getting derailed by arguments that are off topic. (though Cl’s inability to say why XT’s miracle claims should be swallowed while rejecting those of other faiths is at least somewhat on topic).

I can add to the list by modifying a previous line:

The one true God was a ghost and with a virgin had a child that was actually the one true God, who sacrificed himself to himself for most of a weekend in order to convince himself to change a rule he had made himself after their (and his) ancestors ate a piece of fruit. (gMatthew1&27 and gLuke 2&23)

Then, this same one (?) true (?) God (?) taught that everyone should:

Drink poison & handle poisonous snakes (mk 16:18)

Believe that 1=3=1 (hey, there ISN’t a biblical reference. Ain’t that odd?)

Believe that Christianity ISN’T polytheistic, despite the above 1=3 and the existence of Satan

Participate in ritualized cannibalism as the way to worship a flying zombie (mk 14:22, ax 1:9)

Believe all this or be tortured forever in Hell by the compassionate, loving one true God (mk 16:17)

This was fun, but really it may be more productive to fit this all into a list on a wiki somewhere. Isn’t there already a very good list of absurdities on the SAB http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/abs/long.htm ? I’ve thought that perhaps with any of these (absurdities, contradictions, obscenities, or whatever category), there should be a ranking, say 1 to 10, so it’s easy to sort them and get some of the top ones quickly.

It seems like the list you are constructing has been done before, so you doing it over again will be a waste of time (albeit a fun one). So perhaps editing or improving an established list would be just as fun but would have more long term impact?

Have a fun day-

-Equinox

placebo · 09-24-2007, 09:29 AM

This is a little off topic but it has bothered me for a long time. If Jesus played baseball would he hit a home run every at bat or would he lay down a sacrifice bunt occasionally?

placebo · 09-24-2007, 11:15 AM

An awful lot of words have been spilled trying to be polite in the attacks on religion, God and the supernatural. You guys can argue in circles for eternity with its defenders, but you'll be hard pressed to beat the simplicity and effectiveness of pointing out the ridiculousness of talking snakes and talking donkeys. The talking donkey makes me think of Shrek. And that makes me laugh. The Bible makes me laugh too.

No Robots · 09-24-2007, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by placebo

An awful lot of words have been spilled trying to be polite in the attacks on religion, God and the supernatural. You guys can argue in circles for eternity with its defenders, but you'll be hard pressed to beat the simplicity and effectiveness of pointing out the ridiculousness of talking snakes and talking donkeys. The talking donkey makes me think of Shrek. And that makes me laugh. The Bible makes me laugh too.

I have labored carefully not to mock, lament, or execrate human actions, but to understand them.--Spinoza

placebo · 09-24-2007, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

I have labored carefully not to mock, lament, or execrate human actions, but to understand them.--Spinoza[/INDENT]

This Spinoza dude seems like a decent guy. However, sometimes you have to point out the obvious. Especially if you live in a time and place where fairy tales are being used to form public policy to the detriment of society. So, Spinoza if you're listening, go ahead and speak up- tell us how you really feel.

DISSIDENT AGGRESSOR · 09-24-2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by placebo

This is a little off topic but it has bothered me for a long time. If Jesus played baseball would he hit a home run every at bat or would he lay down a sacrifice bunt occasionally?

That's easy.

Jesus always lays down a sacrifice bunt when at bat. He saves the home run for in the big inning:blush:

09-24-2007, 09:29 AM	#26
placebo Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Indiana Posts: 31	If Jesus Played Baseball ... This is a little off topic but it has bothered me for a long time. If Jesus played baseball would he hit a home run every at bat or would he lay down a sacrifice bunt occasionally?

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09-22-2007, 09:14 PM	#23
Tangent Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NY Posts: 188	My contribution to the list. Genesis 3:24 He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life. I always ask bible literalists if they truly believe there are cherubim and a flaming sword out there somewhere right now in Mesopotamia.

09-24-2007, 09:24 AM	#25
Equinox Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 897	OK, this discussion is obviously getting derailed by arguments that are off topic. (though Cl’s inability to say why XT’s miracle claims should be swallowed while rejecting those of other faiths is at least somewhat on topic). I can add to the list by modifying a previous line: The one true God was a ghost and with a virgin had a child that was actually the one true God, who sacrificed himself to himself for most of a weekend in order to convince himself to change a rule he had made himself after their (and his) ancestors ate a piece of fruit. (gMatthew1&27 and gLuke 2&23) Then, this same one (?) true (?) God (?) taught that everyone should: Drink poison & handle poisonous snakes (mk 16:18) Believe that 1=3=1 (hey, there ISN’t a biblical reference. Ain’t that odd?) Believe that Christianity ISN’T polytheistic, despite the above 1=3 and the existence of Satan Participate in ritualized cannibalism as the way to worship a flying zombie (mk 14:22, ax 1:9) Believe all this or be tortured forever in Hell by the compassionate, loving one true God (mk 16:17) This was fun, but really it may be more productive to fit this all into a list on a wiki somewhere. Isn’t there already a very good list of absurdities on the SAB http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/abs/long.htm ? I’ve thought that perhaps with any of these (absurdities, contradictions, obscenities, or whatever category), there should be a ranking, say 1 to 10, so it’s easy to sort them and get some of the top ones quickly. It seems like the list you are constructing has been done before, so you doing it over again will be a waste of time (albeit a fun one). So perhaps editing or improving an established list would be just as fun but would have more long term impact? Have a fun day- -Equinox

09-24-2007, 11:15 AM	#27
placebo Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Indiana Posts: 31	An awful lot of words have been spilled trying to be polite in the attacks on religion, God and the supernatural. You guys can argue in circles for eternity with its defenders, but you'll be hard pressed to beat the simplicity and effectiveness of pointing out the ridiculousness of talking snakes and talking donkeys. The talking donkey makes me think of Shrek. And that makes me laugh. The Bible makes me laugh too.

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