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Old 05-24-2007, 10:17 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Solo View Post
I did not talk about the Bible in general, I talked about Paul. If you can show me a pattern of hypocrisy in Paul, I'll reconsider my view of him.

Jiri
Paul, basically, admits to being a hypocrite...
Quote:
Romans 7
7What, then, shall we say? the law [is] sin? let it not be! but the sin I did not know except through law, for also the covetousness I had not known if the law had not said:
8`Thou shalt not covet;' and the sin having received an opportunity, through the command, did work in me all covetousness -- for apart from law sin is dead.
9And I was alive apart from law once, and the command having come, the sin revived, and I died;
10and the command that [is] for life, this was found by me for death;
11for the sin, having received an opportunity, through the command, did deceive me, and through it did slay [me];
12so that the law, indeed, [is] holy, and the command holy, and righteous, and good.
13That which is good then, to me hath it become death? let it not be! but the sin, that it might appear sin, through the good, working death to me, that the sin might become exceeding sinful through the command,
14for we have known that the law is spiritual, and I am fleshly, sold by the sin;
15for that which I work, I do not acknowledge; for not what I will, this I practise, but what I hate, this I do.
16And if what I do not will, this I do, I consent to the law that [it is] good,
17and now it is no longer I that work it, but the sin dwelling in me,
18for I have known that there doth not dwell in me, that is, in my flesh, good: for to will is present with me, and to work that which is right I do not find,
19for the good that I will, I do not; but the evil that I do not will, this I practise.
20And if what I do not will, this I do, it is no longer I that work it, but the sin that is dwelling in me.
21I find, then, the law, that when I desire to do what is right, with me the evil is present,
22for I delight in the law of God according to the inward man,
23and I behold another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of the sin that [is] in my members.
24A wretched man I [am]! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death?
25I thank God -- through Jesus Christ our Lord; so then, I myself indeed with the mind do serve the law of God, and with the flesh, the law of sin.
Circumcision makes you a debtor to the whole law and Christ shall profit you nothing...
Quote:
Galatians 5
1In the freedom, then, with which Christ did make you free -- stand ye, and be not held fast again by a yoke of servitude;
2lo, I Paul do say to you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing;
3and I testify again to every man circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law;
Well, Paul was circumcized. Most of the Christians, at that time, were circumcized. All the apostles were circumcized. Jesus was said to have been circumcized. Hypocrisy, no?

From Acts (I know, not written by Paul...but describing Paul's actions)...
Quote:
Acts 21
17And we having come to Jerusalem, the brethren did gladly receive us,
18and on the morrow Paul was going in with us unto James, all the elders also came,
19and having saluted them, he was declaring, one by one, each of the things God did among the nations through his ministration,
20and they having heard, were glorifying the Lord. They said also to him, `Thou seest, brother, how many myriads there are of Jews who have believed, and all are zealous of the law,
21and they are instructed concerning thee, that apostacy from Moses thou dost teach to all Jews among the nations, saying -- Not to circumcise the children, nor after the customs to walk;
22what then is it? certainly the multitude it behoveth to come together, for they will hear that thou hast come.
23`This, therefore, do that we say to thee: We have four men having a vow on themselves,
24these having taken, be purified with them, and be at expence with them, that they may shave the head, and all may know that the things of which they have been instructed concerning thee are nothing, but thou dost walk -- thyself also -- the law keeping.
25`And concerning those of the nations who have believed, we have written, having given judgment, that they observe no such thing, except to keep themselves both from idol-sacrifices, and blood, and a strangled thing, and whoredom.'
26Then Paul, having taken the men, on the following day, with them having purified himself, was entering into the temple, announcing the fulfilment of the days of the purification, till the offering was offered for each one of them.
He submited to James' wish, that he purify himself (in a Jewish Temple) and keep the law.


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Old 05-24-2007, 10:24 AM   #32
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If Paul was so steeped in traditional Jewish theology, why did he use the Greek transliteration instead of “messiah”? (I know he wrote in Greek, but my point is he is already somewhat removed from the traditional connotation by using by using the transliteration.)
Paul used the Greek translation, not a transliteration. He did as all the other NT writers did in this regard.

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And why did he use it as a title, “Christ Jesus”, instead of a description, “Jesus the Christ”?
Again, he did as all the other NT writers did, including Peter, John, James and Jude, all Jews.

Quote:
“Expected by some” perhaps, but clearly not by Paul. Otherwise why was he on and on about a crucified and re-animated spirit?
Crucified on earth.

'But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law.' Gal 4:4-5 NIV

'Who, always being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be cling to, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death — even death on a cross!' Phil 2:6-8
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Old 05-24-2007, 11:19 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Clouseau
Paul used the Greek translation, not a transliteration.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ:

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Christ is the English term for the Greek word Χριστός (Christós), which literally means "The Anointed One". The Hebrew word for Christ is מָשִׁיחַ (Mašêaḥ), usually transliterated Messiah.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau
Again, he did as all the other NT writers did, including Peter, John, James and Jude, all Jews
All of whom are in the midst of the development of Christianity. Exactly what sets it apart from Judaism and previous messianic expectations.

Kind like it is, ya know, today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau
Crucified on earth.
My point is that you cannot use traditional messianic expectations of an earthly leader as an indicator of how Paul saw his "Christ". They are clearly not the same.

DQ
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